SE FINALLY ANSWERED THE HEALERS COMMUNITY LONG ANSWERED QUESTION

[Aword3213]

Those playstyle differences blur together in the tedium of spamming one spell over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

That does not mean they don't exist.

Jeering at vet healers and trotting out the tired "HeaLeRS shOuLD HeAL" line? Sylphies. Lazy. Sylphies.

Honestly, "Healers should heal" mentaility has its merit. Especially from the perspective of people coming from other MMOs with traditional healers, or people who never played any MMO.
Whether the encounter design acually go along with such philosophy is another matter

In Extremes and up where you're forced to lean on more of your kit, sure. Below that though, eh they're all largely pressing the same buttons with different particles and SFX. Watch a healer streaming the MSQ and it looks the same regardless of which healer they are on. The DPS are much more varied.

Watching streamers refreshing dots and go back with Broil/ Stone is not entertaning too, but it's a totally different scene when they were in group content. Group content is where healers shine and that's reasonable.

However, soloing content and doing low difficulty duties as current healers are dull indeed. This is a desgin flaw there's no denying that. But to say there's no playstyle exists between healers is hyperbole.

No, it has 1 "optimal" playstyle, appart from that there are multiple deviations players may take, healers can't

Healer can. Healers at different range use different abilities at different situations.

earthly star which has the same as playstyle as salted earth, is salted earth a playstyle for you too?

really? you want to be unreasonable? 2 can play that game
Most dps GCDs are flat damage, some with postitionals. They are all the same, just with different animation

"BuT ThEIr hEAling" you may say, for that log for the ast, those dps actions were 84% of its total actions, 84% of which 88% is generic stuff, or in other words 73,92% of what said ast did in a 8m savage encounter was generic, this is not a playstyle, this is a disgrace.

Those similarity comes from how bloated our oGCD action is. Even if they give us offensive tools but in the form of oGCD, your total action percentage will still be the same

By the way, playstyle should not be limited to offensive options alone, especially it's the healer we are talking about

Reward

The reward is the number of cast you can squeeze in a fight. I'm playing devil's advocate here

which is way way way more work than balancing 3-4 actions per healer

it's way way way more work designing a new job. Let's stop asking for new jobs

reworking 8 years worth of content, raids and single target instances and core heals of 4 jobs.

Stop bothering me with the idea that is not mine

common sense

common sense doesn't work on coding and game changing decision

[QooEr]

I'm playing devil's advocate here

is this what your stance is in this? youve said youve agreed that fights are poorly designed considering our heal output. you say you wouldnt mind healers having more dps option. but you keep refuting statements, apparently for the sake of being contrarian.

i fail to see what meaningful discussion youre trying to bring here.

[Aword3213]

is this what your stance is in this? youve said youve agreed that fights are poorly designed considering our heal output. you say you wouldnt mind healers having more dps option. but you keep refuting statements, apparently for the sake of being contrarian.

i fail to see what meaningful discussion youre trying to bring here.

Do I have to agree on everything just because we all want the same thing?

Do I have to turn a blind eye to hyperbolic statement just because that statement suit my agenda?

If those are what you do, I'm only sorry that I'm not the kind of person you people are. When things are wrong, they are wrong. I don't care about their stances. I don't care they are friend or foe.

[QooEr]

Do I have to agree on everything just because we all want the same thing?

Do I have to turn a blind eye to hyperbolic statement just because that statement suit my agenda?

If those are what you do, I'm only sorry that I'm not the kind of person you people are. When things are wrong, they are wrong. I don't care about their stances. I don't care they are friend or foe.

i jsut wanted to understand your thought process, especially since theres quite a few people on these forums that just seem to argue in bad faith (im not saying you are)

[WaxSw]

Healer can. Healers at different range use different abilities at different situations.

Using glare or glare, malefic or malefic, broil or ruin, thats all the choices we have on 80% of what we do, even higher at easier difficulties like exs or normal.

Most dps GCDs are flat damage, some with postitionals. They are all the same

Most dps gcds interact with the kit either by giving buffs, comboing into each other, branching into other combos or giving core resources, they're not the same, you can't take the 3 combos of Samurai and say its the same as the 2 of drg due to how they interact with the kit and how they branch and loop, meanwhile you can take glare/malefic/broil change the potency and cast time aside in the case of malefic (for now, EW will change that) they're exactly the same action with different animations.

[...]playstyle should not be limited to offensive options alone

The similarities come from how generic the dps kit is not how much ogcds we have, if they made proper different kits for each healer even with the bloated ogcd heal kit there woudnt be cases like an Ast doing generic stuff for 74% of a savage encounter.

I'm saying dps kit as buffs, debuffs, dots, cooldowns and interactions not only more straight attacks. Those are the ones that need to be expanded, basically a kit that can be used wether you take 100 damage or 100k

The reward is the number of cast you can squeeze in a fight. I'm playing devil's advocate here

Can see that, saying the reward is having a more monotone playstyle of using what you're already using by the dozens, if you consider that a reward you do you but back when I was in the school we had punishments that were exactly that.

Stop bothering me with the idea that is not mine

You were the one defending the high intensity healing instead of a dps expansion, that idea of healing to work requires the rework of the game

common sense doesn't work on coding and game changing decision

lol no

[Aword3213]

Using glare or glare, malefic or malefic, broil or ruin, thats all the choices we have on 80% of what we do, even higher at easier difficulties like exs or normal.

come now. The choice is there. Lilies, asylum, Whispering Dawn, Summon Seraph, Sacred Soil, Collective Unconciouseness, cards etc.

Most dps gcds interact with the kit either by giving buffs, comboing into each other, branching into other combos or giving core resources, they're not the same, you can't take the 3 combos of Samurai and say its the same as the 2 of drg due to how they interact with the kit and how they branch and loop, meanwhile you can take glare/malefic/broil change the potency and cast time aside in the case of malefic (for now, EW will change that) they're exactly the same action with different animations.

Glad you can see the difference. Now let's work harder. What's the difference between Earthly Star and Salted Earth?

The similarities come from how generic the dps kit is not how much ogcds we have, if they made proper different kits for each healer even with the bloated ogcd heal kit there woudnt be cases like an Ast doing generic stuff for 74% of a savage encounter.

Nope. Your oGCDs are enough to cover the damage throwing at you. So you have plently of time casting offensive GCDs. One should not mistake the cause and the effect

Not saying we shouldn't have more offensive GCDs though.

I'm saying dps kit as buffs, debuffs, dots, cooldowns and interactions not only more straight attacks. Those are the ones that need to be expanded, basically a kit that can be used wether you take 100 damage or 100k

I'd love to see it happen

saying the reward is having a more monotone playstyle of using what you're already using by the dozens, if you consider that a reward you do you but back when I was in the school we had punishments that were exactly that.

As I said before, depend on how you look at it. You want to see it as punishment. You do you

If I consider doing damage as my secondary job, then I would rather choose 1 tool that can suffice my need to do it than forcing to use 10 different tools to achieve the same result, especially when I have primary job to worry about ( healing)

You were the one defending the high intensity healing instead of a dps expansion, that idea of healing to work requires the rework of the game

Stop forcing me to rationalize the idea which is not mine. Stop it. It only makes you look desperate to win

lol no

Your talent on resource management is too good to waste. SQEX surely could suse people like you.

[WaxSw]

come now. The choice is there. Lilies, asylum, Whispering Dawn, Summon Seraph, Sacred Soil, Collective Unconciouseness, cards etc.

Are you really implying that chosing between heal cooldowns that you use maybe one or two per minute at best, that barely have any interaction with each other and some of then even with the kit is the same as the management the dps have to do with their rotation? do you really play the same game as us?

What's the difference between Earthly Star and Salted Earth?

That one in a kit more fleshed out than the other and while one will have interactions with its own kit coming 6.0 the other won't?

They have something in common tho, they do not define the playstyle of their respective jobs

If I consider doing damage as my secondary job

Then you're not playing a healer in ffxiv, no one sane would think that their secondary job is what they do for easily over 70% of the time

especially when I have primary job to worry about ( healing)

Which happen so little and with so low intensity you don't worry about, so whats the point? We are in a game where healers spend 70% of the time or more dpsing and 30% or less healing, thinking that you constantly have to manage heals either shows an absolute lack of experience or complete lack of understanding about how the role is played.

Your oGCDs are enough to cover the damage throwing at you. So you have plently of time casting offensive GCDs

Even in fights were gcds has to be used the problem remains, doesnt matter how much healing we have to do, there will be always downtime and as long as downtime tools are still generic we will still have a % of our actions being generic shit. Proof being TEA and E12s which have the toughest heal checks of the game (in Shb) and even in those there is a great % of our casts being generic nuke and generic dot something that did not happen in previous expansions with less heal intensive fights.

[AFuzzyMu11in]

Choosing heal cooldowns quicky when you take damage is fun yes. Do I use assize here or do I use planery, heck do I just put a shield on the tank there is constantly buttons to be pressing. And the real fun comes when you memorize the encounter patterns so your focus is just on the button to press not the movement.

[Semirhage]

Honestly, "Healers should heal" mentaility has its merit. Especially from the perspective of people coming from other MMOs with traditional healers, or people who never played any MMO.
Whether the encounter design acually go along with such philosophy is another matter

It has merit in other MMOs. Not here. It's a mentality that comes from attrition healing models, which FFXIV doesn't follow (and thank god it doesn't; I personally dislike attrition healing/find it incredibly boring. So I don't play those MMOs.)

"Healers should HEAL ONLY!" is a weird aberration born from the MMO genre. It's never been remotely true in any single player RPG I've played. Most of the multiplayer RPGs either. Constantly spamming healing spells usually means you've A) encountered a boss your party isn't capable of handling, B) you're fighting some optional super high difficulty one-off encounter, or C) things are going terribly wrong and you may not be very good at the game yet.

FFXIV's healing to downtime ratio is much more in line with one of those games than it is with an attrition healing MMO. The obsession with rigidly slotting classes into a trinity system with as little overlap as possible is....an opinion I suppose. It's not my opinion, and I personally think it easily leads to boring, terribly designed gameplay the more it gets pushed.

But Sylphies who screech "Healers should HEaL OnLY" aren't doing so out of some desire for an abstract cerebral conversation about the nature of a role-based system or the design considerations that spring up from it. They're here to jeer at veteran healers with tired BS like "UHHH there's already a role called damage dealer so YOU CAN'T DO IT IT'S NOT IN THE DEFINITION!"

[Aword3213]

Are you really implying that chosing between heal cooldowns that you use maybe one or two per minute at best, that barely have any interaction with each other and some of then even with the kit is the same as the management the dps have to do with their rotation? do you really play the same game as us?]

Please don't put words in my mouth. Not the same, though what's there is there.

To say there's no choice at all is an overstatement

That one in a kit more fleshed out than the other and while one will have interactions with its own kit coming 6.0 the other won't?

*sigh* If you only care about damage, we have nothing more to say on this matter.

Then you're not playing a healer in ffxiv, no one sane would think that their secondary job is what they do for easily over 70% of the time

I don't think that way though. That's just a perspective.

By the way, are you frustrated or something? You're starting to get aggressive

Which happen so little and with so low intensity you don't worry about, so whats the point? We are in a game where healers spend 70% of the time or more dpsing and 30% or less healing, thinking that you constantly have to manage heals either shows an absolute lack of experience or complete lack of understanding about how the role is played.

Just an example to show you a different perspective. Not that I really struggle with healings in any content though. Anyway, if looking down on me makes you feel any better, well...

Even in fights were gcds has to be used the problem remains, doesnt matter how much healing we have to do, there will be always downtime and as long as downtime tools are still generic we will still have a % of our actions being generic shit.

There will always be downtimes for sure, but it seems to me you firmly believe more dps is the only solution. I'd say good luck with that. Hopefully SQEX will hear you, some day, in the future

Proof being TEA and E12s which have the toughest heal checks of the game (in Shb) and even in those there is a great % of our casts being generic nuke and generic dot something that did not happen in previous expansions with less heal intensive fights.

Cause and effect, bro. Cause and effect.