SE FINALLY ANSWERED THE HEALERS COMMUNITY LONG ANSWERED QUESTION

[WaxSw]

SQEX think they have made healers engaging by increasing healing intensity to compensate the loss the those dps tools

Something that hasn't happened, healers nowadays dps even more than in previous expansions

SQEX now puts themselves in an awkward postion that, by adjusting the amount of offensive options on healers, they risk offending either group of people

Its simple in reality, give more dps options, more dps options still allow for 1 button spam as well as more complex playstyles, 1 button spam only allows for 1 button spam only and limits all the players. If people like to 1 button spam with more options they'll be able to do it, if what they care about is being optimal while only 1 button spamming then they're lazy and to begin with they shoudn't be listened cause for the sake of the lazyness want to hijack a role and push it to the ground. Not even counting how its not mmo gameplay to spam 1 button over and over, its bad design.

"some people consider it as a reward" a reward is not something you get that often, a reward must have some work behind like how midare setsugeka for example is a reward from getting the 3 sen, when your main nuke, the "reward" is the most used action in the encounter being in some instances used 10 times more than the second most used action then its not a reward, its the baseline.

Now you're the one conditioning healer contribution by something that may or may not happen. That's also where SQEX 1 button mentaility comes in.

You're mixing messages here, I'm talking about how to judge the skill of a healer you have to take a lot of things into account not only the heal and dps number. SQEX mentality doesn't have anything to do with this and if anything comes from wanting to cuddle the newbies instead of allowing good healers to easily show their skills.

Not neccessarily. It depends on the kits and the encounter design

Less ogcd=more casts=more time healers have to stand still=more limitations in how mechanics can hurt the party as healers have to cast the heals, even if they don't have to cast them and are instant cast reducing the amount of ogcds limits more how bursty some mechanics can be as healers only have said gcds to heal, ogcds are flexible, gcds are not.

They obvously don't mind increasing the ceiling regarding healing. They said it during ShB, and they reiterate it in media tour

They do when they've disregarded increasing the healing in all the content as that high intensity mode would need, also they said it in Shb just to not fulfill the promise when we're still healing very very little for all the healing kit we have. At this point is clear for any veteran healer, they are unwilling to increase the hps in anything but the highest savage and ultimates.

If it is needed and neccessay, they should consume those resources [...]

The point is its not needed, is the most expensive option and its plagued with tons and tons of troubles, which leads me to...

dps options too because it takes them a lot of effort to balance

Nowhere close, not even in the same dimension as reworking 8 years of content to allow for a new healing model. I think you don't understant that for the high intensity heal some people want they should rework everything in the game from Sastasha, to ultimates and everything inbetween that is insane and saying balancing lets say 3-4 dps extra options per healer takes the same amount of time and resources is a blatant lie. If they can do it with tanks they can do it with healers.

However, it seems to me they don't mind spending resources on enhancing healing aspect on healers.

Its not about enhancing the healers only, healing is something external, you don't heal if there is no enemy doing damage to you, you don't heal in a dummy fight for example, to increase the healing kit and having it in a way that makes sense the encounter design has to follow and current design doesn't do it, this is another problem that the high intensity healing has, they would also have to rework the healers to allow to tackle said intensity which leads to not only rework all the content in the game but also changind all the healer roles, as I said previously this is insane to ask for when there are cheaper options resource wise.

I did mention gear, didn't I?

In how healers are the only punished when they mess their rotations, which is where my point is, we're not special snowflakes and are punished as much as everyone else for not doing our part in the party, a healer lacking skill is a much as liability as a dps lacking skill.

Besides as I've said, if you're in a encounter with a dps check (something that happens in endgame only) you're not learning your rotation anymore and you shoudn't be cuddled in that enviroment too, at that point you've taken the baby wheels out of your bike so you gotta deal with it.

[Aword3213]

give more dps options, more dps options still allow for 1 button spam as well as more complex playstyles, 1 button spam only allows for 1 button spam only and limits all the players. If people like to 1 button spam with more options they'll be able to do it, if what they care about is being optimal while only 1 button spamming then they're lazy and to begin with they shoudn't be listened cause for the sake of the lazyness want to hijack a role and push it to the ground.

True face revealed eh? Straight calling people lazy because they have different perference.

They did not hijack anything. People don't just ask for 1 button spam and SQEX simply oblige them. SQEX made this decision first. People then came to like it. Not the other way around.

the "reward" is the most used action in the encounter being in some instances used 10 times more than the second most used action then its not a reward, its the baseline.

Depend on how you look at it though.
"You handle the healing splendidily. Now you no longer have to worry about that many buttons to keep up with 10% dps contribition. Good job for keeping the party alive"

Less ogcd=more casts=more time healers have to stand still=more limitations in how mechanics can hurt the party as healers have to cast the heals, even if they don't have to cast them and are instant cast reducing the amount of ogcds limits more how bursty some mechanics can be as healers only have said gcds to heal, ogcds are flexible, gcds are not.

It's rather convenient when it suits your agenda.

How did those people heal back when they didn't have much oGCDs to work with I wonder.

saying balancing lets say 3-4 dps extra options per healer takes the same amount of time and resources is a blatant lie. If they can do it with tanks they can do it with healers.

You just won't know how their resource work unless you work for them. Besides, they would rather spend more time on adding new healings actions, and a new healer to boot. It seems SQEX opinion on resource is contrary to yours

we're not special snowflakes and are punished as much as everyone else for not doing our part in the party, a healer lacking skill is a much as liability as a dps lacking skill.

I'd say healer death is more punishing though. Healers are people, too. They need time to get familiar with mechanics and they make mistakes too, but their death usally means team wipe.

at that point you've taken the baby wheels out of your bike so you gotta deal with it.

I kinda agree with this sentiment. Unfortunately Yoshida want savage contents to be accessible to as many people as possible. However, beware of what you said though. As current healers have no problem clearing all contents, SQEX or current healers lovers will also tell you to deal with it if you don't like it

[Sani2341]

How did those people heal back when they didn't have much oGCDs to work with I wonder.

I can't speak for everyone, but me and those I know usually enjoy when Healers have a meaningfull choice of Healing or DPsing with the next GCD. Much more interesting to have to decide if people (mostly the tank) will be fine for another GCD + heal casttime or not.
Granted I was not aroudn back when FFXIV had a low oGCD Healer Design, but I Have played enough other MMOs where that was the case to say I enjoyed Healign more when I had less.

However, beware of what you said though. As current healers have no problem clearing all contents, SQEX or current healers lovers will also tell you to deal with it if you don't like it

And people will.
Though for a lot of the experienced crowd they are likely to 'deal with it' by quiting healing, or heading to a game that offers a healing experience closer to what they like.

[QooEr]

Depend on how you look at it though.
"You handle the healing splendidily. Now you no longer have to worry about that many buttons to keep up with 10% dps contribition. Good job for keeping the party alive"

Which WOULD be a semi-valid way to look at things if fights actually did any damage to heal in the first place, even in savage. Theres plenty of fights in the eden raids that do less damage than some fights from stormblood. Why is savage from a whole expansion later doing less damage than fights 10 levels below it? And im not talking damage elative to hp either. Im talking absolute numbers.
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/cnbGm...e=damage-taken
neo exdeath, last fight of the very first tier for that expansion.
damage taken: 8.69m

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/KBQ1g...e=damage-taken
Ifrit and garuda savage, a whole expansion later in the second raid tier.
damage taken:8.55m

My reward for healing some paltry damage that at best happens twice a minute if im lucky, is to spam malefic 160 times, instead of 150?

How did those people heal back when they didn't have much oGCDs to work with I wonder.

Actually, it was still possible to clear fights with near 0 gcd heals back then, but it was a reward for perfect planning of heals, mitigation and insane embrace micromanagement. Now its practically expected to have single digit gcd heals on a fight where nobody messes up mechanics, for a fraction of the effort.

You just won't know how their resource work unless you work for them. Besides, they would rather spend more time on adding new healings actions, and a new healer to boot. It seems SQEX opinion on resource is contrary to yours

And that is the crux of the issue. People keep telling SQEX that adding more healing actions doesnt make us heal more, in fact it does the opposite. Youre only trying to make sense of their flawed logic.

[Aword3213]

Which WOULD be a semi-valid way to look at things if fights actually did any damage to heal in the first place, even in savage. Theres plenty of fights in the eden raids that do less damage than some fights from stormblood. Why is savage from a whole expansion later doing less damage than fights 10 levels below it? And im not talking damage elative to hp either. Im talking absolute numbers.

neo exdeath, last fight of the very first tier for that expansion.
damage taken: 8.69m


Ifrit and garuda savage, a whole expansion later in the second raid tier.
damage taken:8.55m

My reward for healing some paltry damage that at best happens twice a minute if im lucky, is to spam malefic 160 times, instead of 150?

Bad Design is bad design. Not gonna argue. I've mentioned healing in Eden Verse in my othe replies too

Actually, it was still possible to clear fights with near 0 gcd heals back then, but it was a reward for perfect planning of heals, mitigation and insane embrace micromanagement. Now its practically expected to have single digit gcd heals on a fight where nobody messes up mechanics, for a fraction of the effort.

Thank you for proving my point. You don't need that many oGCD heals to minimize GCD usage.

And that is the crux of the issue. People keep telling SQEX that adding more healing actions doesnt make us heal more, in fact it does the opposite. Youre only trying to make sense of their flawed logic.

Now that's coming from nowhere. I wasn't though. I agreed on many points with people who quoted me. I said bad things about their design choice. If some people like the current design on healers, I feel happy for them.

[WaxSw]

True face revealed eh? Straight calling people lazy because they have different perference.

They did not hijack anything. People don't just ask for 1 button spam and SQEX simply oblige them. SQEX made this decision first. People then came to like it. Not the other way around.

Did I hide something to begin with? People who want a job to not grow because they want to be optimal pressing one button are lazy and imo toxic for the game as they impose a playstyle that do not allow others to grow, is about options, more actions=more playstyiles (even if some are more optimal than others), 1 action= 1 playstyle, for me thats a hijack.

Especial not to "and be optimal" I people want to keep pressing the 1 button rotation even if its not optimal as long as it doesn't hurt others (enrage wipes and so) they do they.

Depend on how you look at it though.

No? That phrase you said for example implies that I had to do some effort beforehand, current healers do not because at a base level what we do is dpsing, we do not have to do anything to gain it, is given to us by default.

How did those people heal back when they didn't have much oGCDs to work with I wonder.

Have you looked at what mechanics did we have back then and the ones we have now? Mechanics now require more movement out of healers than they did it previously and when previously we had something like managing dots or mitigation like stoneskin the game right now is more bursty.

You just won't know how their resource work unless you work for them. Besides, they would rather spend more time on adding new healings actions, and a new healer to boot. It seems SQEX opinion on resource is contrary to yours

Have you understood what I said? Precisely SE is doing what I said they would, not touching older content because resource allocation for that is insane, you don't even need to understand about coding or server data to understand that reworking 8 years worth of content and the fundamental core of 4 entire jobs is far more work than balancing 16 extra dps actions when they already do that by dozens every expansion.

"they would rather spend more time on adding new healings actions, and a new healer to boot" they add more healing actions for their wrong idea that we would heal more and because the argument of yoshi p about new dps actions and newbies, and even with that they've only added 1 per healer because we're already overloaded with them for the encounter design we have and they better add a new healer after the complains and half assed excuses for dnc to not be a healer, it was a compromise to the commmunity and even with that with every interview you can get the idea they basically wing it, something that looking how its almost sch 2.0 is not hard to believe.

but their death usally means team wipe.

No, its not, in high end content you have 2 healers precisely because of that and 2/3 casters have rez in their toolkit, a healer dying is not the end of the world, not more than a dps dying which may mean a wipe to enrage.

Yoshida want savage contents to be accessible to as many people as possible

There is an immense gap between "Anyone can enter" and "Anyone can clear" they don't want people to have to grind for 1838243 hours to have a chance to enter savage but that does not mean savage is balanced around and meant to be cleared by the "uwu I dont know my job pls carry me" kind of players, they're in high end game, they must be up to the task.

[Aword3213]

1 action= 1 playstyle, for me thats a hijack

And you think there are many playstyes in dps roles.

No? That phrase you said for example implies that I had to do some effort beforehand, current healers do not because at a base level what we do is dpsing, we do not have to do anything to gain it, is given to us by default.

Yep, No. Not everyone can reach 10% dps contribtions as easily as you, so by defaut it isn't.

Have you looked at what mechanics did we have back then and the ones we have now? Mechanics now require more movement out of healers than they did it previously and when previously we had something like managing dots or mitigation like stoneskin the game right now is more bursty.

GCD needn't to be flat heals. They already worked something out like Macrocosmos. Don't let your imagination bind you.

Precisely SE is doing what I said they would, not touching older content because resource allocation for that is insane, you don't even need to understand about coding or server data to understand that reworking 8 years worth of content and the fundamental core of 4 entire jobs is far more work than balancing 16 extra dps actions when they already do that by dozens every expansion.

Only by the premise of your idea would they need to rework. They don't have to. I don't know whose suggestion you were taking that led you to think that way, but definitely not mine.

they would rather spend more time on adding new healings actions, and a new healer to boot" they add more healing actions for their wrong idea that we would heal more and because the argument of yoshi p about new dps actions and newbies

You're right. Their idea is bad. Therefore, don't you worry about their resourses. They have plenty to spend

No, its not, in high end content you have 2 healers precisely because of that and 2/3 casters have rez in their toolkit, a healer dying is not the end of the world, not more than a dps dying which may mean a wipe to enrage.

Shocking. To think that you don't know what follows after mechanics are usually raid wide aoes. Well, it depends on the timing of healer's death and the fight. You point is not wrong though.

There is an immense gap between "Anyone can enter" and "Anyone can clear" .

"Through this, we saw an increased demand for crafted gear, food items, and potions, and the markets became more active than any previous raids. I concluded that continuing this would allow for more players to enjoy Savage content. Of course, because of that I decided to implement the “Ultimate” series aimed for those who may not be satisfied by the level of difficulty of Savage. "

I think Yoshida is talking about clear. Of course I don't think he meant anyone.

[WaxSw]

And you think there are many playstyes in dps roles.

Yes, far more than healers, a Samurai rotation has nothing to do with Nin's which is completely different from Drg and Rpr seems to be unique too, Blm Smn and Rdm are completely different and I dare you to say dnc is played the same as Mch

Yep, No. Not everyone can reach 10% dps contribtions as easily as you, so by defaut it isn't.

I'm not talking about dps number but number of actions, I'm starting to think you're twisting what I say on purpose. ANY half assed healer has their main nuke as their most casted spell by a huge margin, this is by deffinition not a rework, is the baseline of what you do

GCD needn't to be flat heals. They already worked something out like Macrocosmos. Don't let your imagination bind you.

Which as I said previously, would require you to rework the core of ALL the healers because outside macrocosmos and maybe 2 more heal every other heal in the game is flat heal

Only by the premise of your idea would they need to rework. They don't have to. I don't know whose suggestion you were taking that led you to think that way, but definitely not mine.

If they wan't to have healers geared towards high intensity encounters they must rework the game because 8 years worth of content are not designed with those kind of healers in mind I refer you to this other post for more information https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-older-content

You're right. Their idea is bad.

Considering how their idea shows a fundamental lack of understanding on how the game is played, something that they've shown several time in the past with the famous energy drain nerf "so sch heal with aetherflow more" which to the surprise of anyone but them didn't acomplish anything, or the famous words of yoshi p at the end of 4.5 of "in high end sch is leaving all the healing to their partners" when parses showed that in high end the one that healed the most was sch, yes, they're wrong and considering this forum has been burning of complains for 2 years straight for the extact same thing they haven't solved this next expansion or how this healer iteration (shb onwards) is the most polemic in the history of the game, yes they're very wrong about healers.

They have plenty to spend

Thats why we have recived a cut in the dungeons per patch? thats why we only haved 3 job designers none of which main healers for the entirety of the game? or how they promised more viera and hrothgar head gear and didnt deliver any? SE resource on ffxiv are nowhere as big as you think

To think that you don't know what follows after mechanics are usually raid wide aoes.

And the problem is? raidwides are not the scariest thing and can be solo healed with ease, for fucks sake we've seen solo heals of TEA, the hardest hitting ultimate of the game, healers are so overpowered healing wise that 1 dying is more an incovenience than a serious penalty

I don't think he meant anyone.

That's the point, anyone can try but you need a bare minimun to succeed and that minmun is knowing your job and gear

[Aword3213]

Yes, far more than healers, a Samurai rotation has nothing to do with Nin's which is completely different from Drg and Rpr seems to be unique too, Blm Smn and Rdm are completely different and I dare you to say dnc is played the same as Mch

What I meant is that NIN has 1 playstyle. DRG has 1 playstye. SMN has 1 playstye.

but if we are comparing jobs with other jobs, then healer playstyle are different too. WHM has lily system and has limited movement options. SCH has fairy, and fairy alone is unique enough. AST has cards and that lovely Earthly Star.

They all have different playstyle. What are you arguing?

I'm not talking about dps number but number of actions, I'm starting to think you're twisting what I say on purpose. ANY half assed healer has their main nuke as their most casted spell by a huge margin, this is by deffinition not a rework, is the baseline of what you do

Rework? reward?

I think you're talking about reward? To prevent from being falsely accused of twisting words on purpose,I'll refrain from saying anything

Which as I said previously, would require you to rework the core of ALL the healers because outside macrocosmos and maybe 2 more heal every other heal in the game is flat heal

There are potential for GCD heals. GCD heals can be interesting, too. They need not to be limited to EW content

If they wan't to have healers geared towards high intensity encounters they must rework the game because 8 years worth of content are not designed with those kind of healers in mind I refer you to this other post for more information https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-older-content

Go question him instead. Don't hold me responsible for his ideas. Not all Hrothgars look alike you know.

Thats why we have recived a cut in the dungeons per patch? thats why we only haved 3 job designers none of which main healers for the entirety of the game? or how they promised more viera and hrothgar head gear and didnt deliver any? SE resource on ffxiv are nowhere as big as you think

And not as low as you think. I'd rather do The Grand Cosmos than Copperbell Mines ( Hard) or The Antitower. Quality over quantity eh? Most importantly, we got Reaper, hooray. Exploration mode is nice too.

Seriously, unless you work for SQEX, I don't really consider you point convincing.

[Sebazy]

And not as low as you think.

Just to interject here:

I've mentioned it before but I did an analysis on this exact thing a few years back that still stands true today. Sato got promoted to a producer style position, perhaps try improve communication between the battle system and content design teams. Another designer got drafted in to keep the team at 4.

SE's investment into FFXIV is... Peculiar at times. They invest massively into the production quality. Art, world building, audio and voice acting are all top notch. But the core design team has always been run as a very tight operation compared to most MMOs. Vanilla WoW invested heavily hiring out of the Everquest scene for example.

but if we are comparing jobs with other jobs, then healer playstyle are different too. WHM has lily system and has limited movement options. SCH has fairy, and fairy alone is unique enough. AST has cards and that lovely Earthly Star.

Are they really though? In Extremes and up where you're forced to lean on more of your kit, sure. Below that though, eh they're all largely pressing the same buttons with different particles and SFX. Watch a healer streaming the MSQ and it looks the same regardless of which healer they are on. The DPS are much more varied.