Can SQ-EN draw a line in the sand w/ 3rd Parties?

[Lanadra]

Just let people play the game. What does it take away from your experience?
It's not giving them any sort of competitive advantage, since those tools do not work during the world first race.
If anything needs to be done to prevent that, it is for the fights to be more randomized.
As a console player, I really could not care less what addons people are using, as long as they enjoy the game.
If those addons help them enjoying it more, good for them.

I'm sure they once said that in WoW also.. and then Blizzard started designing everything with the assumption that everyone was using it. Thus leading to these 'tools' becoming mandatory. If you see someone using cactbot, like say, a streamer, you report them. If you don't, you're part of the problem.

[IckeDerTyp]

Amazing how people still blame current wow on the... Addons. Not the mis-management and their own weird... Mindgoblins

The earlier you realize you've been the problem in the community, the quicker you can come to terms with it and uh...

Maybe you'll stop wanting to dictate how people play/enjoy the game?

Also, am talking very general here and not about someone specific in this thread.

So yeah, let people play the way they want.

[Saefinn]

They have made their stance clear on it, but it doesn't stop people doing it.

My opinion on third party tools is that I'm okay with them as long as they don't compromise the game or allow people to cheat or gain an unfair advantage.

When it comes to tracking tool, I'd probably draw the line at a DPS meter to only judge your own performance to improve or somebody else's only if they solicit it. I agree with Yoshi P on the point if they allowed it you'd see it get abused.

As for call outs, I can see why it's a tough one because yes, you might have a raid leader doing the callouts for you but I feel like a computer will always have an efficiency advantage a human is not able to provide and as said computer is a violation of the ToS it does mean the rule breakers are at a better advantage, they don't need a raid leader or they can skip some of the hardwork of learning a fight without one.

But, people keep referring to Cactbot, so I have looked it up to see what exactly it does, but I can see a few features on there I would definitely consider cheating.

There's timers and timelines on screen for mechanics and that's not the same as having somebody call out on VC. It has death and mistake reporting. It has a raid boss simulator. It has automatic Eureka NM tracking. It has a radar for hunt mobs.

[Lanadra]

Amazing how people still blame current wow on the... Addons. Not the mis-management and their own weird... Mindgoblins

The earlier you realize you've been the problem in the community, the quicker you can come to terms with it and uh...

Maybe you'll stop wanting to dictate how people play/enjoy the game?

Also, am talking very general here and not about someone specific in this thread.

So yeah, let people play the way they want.

Only.. they're still breaking the rules. It doesn't matter if one thinks there's 'harm' in it or not. They are still breaking the rules, 3rd party software is not allowed or condoned. The only existing thing is the 'don't ask don't tell' policy, mostly because they can't and won't install spyware on your system. Doesn't mean that anyone who sees someone using 3rd party software isn't completely, one hundred percent right for reporting it.

[Sotaris]

Problem is they likely not to act on such a report where a streamer show off ACT or whatever.

[ItMe]

If this is true then SE should just allow all these 3rd party addons.

If this happens... RIP console users.

[Lanadra]

Problem is they likely not to act on such a report where a streamer show off ACT or whatever.

Oh I agree, it's not likely they'll hammer down a streamer just because they got ACT on their screen. But I suspect it'll be rather different with things that do quite obviously skirt the lines of acceptability, like Cactbot.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Ye SE is never going to do anything about 3rd party programs as long as you're not openly admitting to using them with in-game chat.

I'm kind of surprised by the initial responses though. This thread very heavily focused on the streamer side of the discussion, no illegal anti-cheat is needed when the perpetrator is actively breaking ToS and is publicly incriminating themselves with video evidence. I mean really SE can ban you for whatever reason they want it's just a matter of benefits. They benefit more from doing nothing than something.

I can say from experience if you're not deterred by the annoying set up of these 3rd party programs then you probably want the game to be easier in some way shape or form or want to circumvent a mechanic/something.
Whether that's "good" or "bad" isn't something I would personally weigh in on.

If I understood correctly in the past, isn’t SE not going to take external sources such as those videos because of the possibility of being ‘doctored’?

[Sotaris]

Oh I agree, it's not likely they'll hammer down a streamer just because they got ACT on their screen. But I suspect it'll be rather different with things that do quite obviously skirt the lines of acceptability, like Cactbot.

I'd guess no but not sure if we ever had a example being made of someone streaming and using cactbot.
iirc they did crack down on people who used the auto markers though so there is some they are intolerante against, unless I imagined that.

If I understood correctly in the past, isn’t SE not going to take external sources such as those videos because of the possibility of being ‘doctored’?

More of less, that's the main reason I believe they aren't doing anything against people announcing sell runs on PF and refer to Discord servers for further discussion.

[LariaKirin]

I did every roles callouts for my group during coil.

I've also done it in e12s, just off memorization of the fight.

And I have a shoddy memory. People with much better memory than me play this game.

I dislike cactbot, but I think people who don't raid are overinflating it's importance here.

Nonsense. You did not do individual callouts, not in the way Cactbot does it. It does way more than you, as a caller, can ever hope to do.

"Wind out, ice in" during Intermediate Relativity is not the type of callout I'm talking about. This is simply calling the order of the timers on those mechanics.

You did not whisper in the ear of every single player in your party telling them where to go at every step of the mechanic.