Can SQ-EN draw a line in the sand w/ 3rd Parties?

[Amnesty]

Firstly, I think people who don't raid Savage or Ultimate should take a seat. You do not know how those fights work. You do not know how Cactbot works. You are just pearl clutching.

I don't think people who use Cactbot are necessarily cheating, but I do think the crutch makes them worse players. If you're in a PF group for Savage and something goes sideways, you can tell who doesn't really know the fight as well as they should at that stage of prog based on whether or not they're adjusting for other players' mistakes to save the run. I also think it's a bit of a gray area with calling mechanics earlier than you can see them. The reason I think it's a gray area is because players with low ping literally see tells and mechanics before players with high ping do, and they also have more time to adjust their position; I didn't actually realize this until I raided with someone doing callouts who had much better ping than mine, because he was making the calls for E11S safe colors before the animations even started on my screen, and he does not use any third party callout tools. Does that mean that Cactbot is an equalizer between low and high ping players? I saw someone say that before COVID prompted working from home, the game was tested on 0ms delay. Assuming that's true, the fights weren't designed for the absurdly short reaction times Brazilian players are given, especially in Ultimate fights. You cannot talk about fairness in reading mechanics in faster paced high level fights without talking about ping advantage, particularly in cases of dramatic differences in latency.

I think there is also a disrespect for other players' preferences going on here. Some people, like myself, value figuring the fight out like a puzzle and learning the mechanics organically. Other people value their execution of the fight first and foremost. They don't care about figuring out what the mechanics do and how. They care about handling the mechanics optimally and pushing their performance to the limit. It's unfair and unproductive to police other people for getting different things out of a game than you do. If you're not in a party with the people using Cactbot, why does it matter? If you're paranoid about other people in your party using Cactbot, put together a group of people who you know aren't using it to clear with you. It isn't that deep.

As Sotaris has patiently explained multiple times, Cactbot is not a magical, psychic force that knows what every mechanic is automatically with no help, and it has no bearing on competitive world first prog. Players develop timelines and figure out how to programmatically read mechanics from the client, and THEN the callouts are worked into Cactbot.

[Coupain]

Is Cactbot a tool which is cheat ? hummm let s see and ask the question to Mrs SMITH, teacher from the school class called « Airport». This year is the concours call « EDEN GARDEN » with a choregraphy spectacle against another school of the Teacher Mr BRIAN from the class « In The Kitchen ».

The 8 students of Mrs Smith have learned the dance alone in few weeks and done the choregraphy in 9 minutes with a pupil who call the dance, with a lot of fails but they suceed it was not perfect but all of this little pupils have done it.

The 8 students of Mr BRIAN have learn and done their choregraphy faster with Cactbot and in 8 minutes without a raid leader, only with a tool

Which class will deserve the applause at the end ?

Sorry for my english

[Sotaris]

Is Cactbot a tool which is cheat ?

In my opinion, no. It only gives you a callout information either visibly or through TTS (text to speech), you still have to act on it and play the game and do the mechanic.
Cactbot is not going to make a bad player a good player.

[SaberMaxwell]

If you wanted difficulty, you would not use ANY tools to make the fights easier. Instead, they get used, then people brag about how they can clear this content while berating anyone who can't.

If you really wanted difficult fights, you wouldn't even need a reward for finishing them. You just want to show off, not have an actual challenge.

I do want difficult fights. I don't use tools. Not even in Ultimate. All of your strawmen fall flat at my feet because you're conflating two different viewpoints into one and assigning them to a generalized "you."

As for your second paragraph, that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. You don't like that people like to get trophies to show off their achievements? Too bad, welcome to the human race. Even the Olympics hand out medals but they should just be fine showing off. Most people are extrinsically motivated.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

They already do.

Don't ask, don't tell.
Don't be an a$$hat with it.

Why is it so hard to understand?

[Nethereal]

Ye SE is never going to do anything about 3rd party programs as long as you're not openly admitting to using them with in-game chat.

I'm kind of surprised by the initial responses though. This thread very heavily focused on the streamer side of the discussion, no illegal anti-cheat is needed when the perpetrator is actively breaking ToS and is publicly incriminating themselves with video evidence. I mean really SE can ban you for whatever reason they want it's just a matter of benefits. They benefit more from doing nothing than something.

I can say from experience if you're not deterred by the annoying set up of these 3rd party programs then you probably want the game to be easier in some way shape or form or want to circumvent a mechanic/something.
Whether that's "good" or "bad" isn't something I would personally weigh in on.

[Sotaris]

This thread very heavily focused on the streamer side of the discussion, no illegal anti-cheat is needed when the perpetrator is actively breaking ToS and is publicly incriminating themselves with video evidence.

This is (likely) never happen since SE even congratulate some raiders and they openly uses ACT.

[Laerune]

This is (likely) never happen since SE even congratulate some raiders and they openly uses ACT.

If this is true then SE should just allow all these 3rd party addons.

[Xaruko_Nexume]

If this is true then SE should just allow all these 3rd party addons.

I would actually feel a lot better if they would just allow the addons or actually enforce their own TOS. Why is it so hard for them?

[Garnix]

If this is true then SE should just allow all these 3rd party addons.

No. Why should they? Yoshi-P is 100% right when he says that allowing them would lead to toxicity.