SE FINALLY ANSWERED THE HEALERS COMMUNITY LONG ANSWERED QUESTION

[Nizzi]

Did SB savage, not SHB didn't realize how content was released so after I cleared the extreme trials in SHB, I quit to go play league for a long time.

Okay, so you're talking about 3-4 year old content, that you presumably also did not heal based on previous comments, when everyone else is discussing the game currently. You haven't done Savage as a healer in Shadowbringers, yet you're saying things like the Scholar opener is a "noob trap", saying you need to hold aetherflow for things "hitting the fan", and that there's no reason to "pretend to be a DPS" when the fights in Eden demand that you do high DPS or you won't clear.
Do you understand how this can cause frustration with you when you talk authoritatively on content you're not doing/haven't done? You don't know what it's like to play a healer in Savage in 5.x, yet you're telling all of us that we're wrong not only in how we're saying to play the job, but also that we're wrong in feeling like it's unfulfilling and is incredibly monotonous. You're making up scenarios about Savage and then you're telling us, the people who have done the content, that we're wrong and that your understanding of the job is better than those who play it at a higher level?

[AFuzzyMu11in]

Okay, so you're talking about 3-4 year old content, that you presumably also did not heal based on previous comments, when everyone else is discussing the game currently. You haven't done Savage as a healer in Shadowbringers, yet you're saying things like the Scholar opener is a "noob trap", saying you need to hold aetherflow for things "hitting the fan", and that there's no reason to "pretend to be a DPS" when the fights in Eden demand that you do high DPS or you won't clear.
Do you understand how this can cause frustration with you when you talk authoritatively on content you're not doing/haven't done? You don't know what it's like to play a healer in Savage in 5.x, yet you're telling all of us that we're wrong not only in how we're saying to play the job, but also that we're wrong in feeling like it's unfulfilling and is incredibly monotonous. You're making up scenarios about Savage and then you're telling us, the people who have done the content, that we're wrong and that your understanding of the job is better than those who play it at a higher level?

What I'm saying is that, its obvious that in higher content, or rather the better a player you are, gear etc that you will have to heal less. What I'm saying is I get that "raiders" are bored from broil spam, but the game isn't meant to just cater to raiders only type players, who are obsessed with their parsing in all content. If adding more healing [mechanics/buttons] makes it too hard for the non raiders it shouldn't be considered. And for the record yes, I could do savage this tier if I wanted to, except its not worth it right now since gear isn't worth it. I'll 100% be doing it though in 6.0 seeing as I'm interested now that I understand how patches flow in this game.

[WaxSw]

What I'm saying is that, its obvious that in higher content, or rather the better a player you are, gear etc that you will have to heal less. What I'm saying is I get that "raiders" are bored from broil spam, but the game isn't meant to just cater to raiders only type players, who are obsessed with their parsing in all content. If adding more healing [mechanics/buttons] makes it too hard for the non raiders it shouldn't be considered. And for the record yes, I could do savage this tier if I wanted to, except its not worth it right now since gear isn't worth it. I'll 100% be doing it though in 6.0 seeing as I'm interested now that I understand how patches flow in this game.

Thinking that only raiders and/or extremely skilled are boring of pressing broil over and over says a lot more about your quality as healer than you think, I'm not even counting all the bullshit about saying the opener is a "noob trap" or how you save AF stacks fot emergencies that simply do not happen, just that.

If I were you I'd consider learning how the job you say you main really works instead of coming here to give feedback that is actually poisonous for its design while treating everyone else as if they didn't know what they talk about, when actually the one who hasn't experienced the content and lacks the knowledge is you.

I'll just say, one shoudn't design for the bottom of the barrel only because if you do you'll end with a 1 button that does everything and even with that there will be people who will complain its too hard.

[AFuzzyMu11in]

Thinking that only raiders and/or extremely skilled are boring of pressing broil over and over says a lot more about your quality as healer than you think, I'm not even counting all the bullshit about saying the opener is a "noob trap" or how you save AF stacks fot emergencies that simply do not happen, just that.

If I were you I'd consider learning how the job you say you main really works instead of coming here to give feedback that is actually poisonous for its design while treating everyone else as if they didn't know what they talk about, when actually the one who hasn't experienced the content and lacks the knowledge is you.

I'll just say, one shoudn't design for the bottom of the barrel only because if you do you'll end with a 1 button that does everything and even with that there will be people who will complain its too hard.

I know how my job works just fine. I get how all the buttons work/combos/I’ve watched guides/read guides been to the balance etc. I fully understand the class, and assuming I don’t just because I like simplification is such a reach. For gods sakes I played 4.0/5.0 smn for pretty much both early expansions till I started liking healing que times/lack of complex rotation in SHB.

[WaxSw]

At risk of biting the bait

Enmity was the one thing I hated with a passion, i had to worry about doing too much damage???

Oh come off if you arrogant raider. My god yes enmity was a problem back then and annoying

I don't want to worry about a rotation, opener, or something optimal

Yeah but the opener is a noob trap since doing that can leave you open to not having aetherflow, you can do it without dissipation dump just with regular aetherflow dump and save dissipation stacks for shit that could go wrong.

Its not my job to rely on my healer while I focus on "optimal dps" it's my job to keep my healing tools up and make sure that we are ready for shit hitting the fan, or worse if they die.

^^

I know how my job works just fine.[..] I fully understand the class[...]

No, you don't

[AFuzzyMu11in]

At risk of biting the bait



^^




No, you don't

Yes I do but I value the ability to be simplistic it’s why I play healer. If they ruin that then I’ll be forced to play tank sadly and the occasional smn.

[Nizzi]

What I'm saying is that, its obvious that in higher content, or rather the better a player you are, gear etc that you will have to heal less. What I'm saying is I get that "raiders" are bored from broil spam, but the game isn't meant to just cater to raiders only type players, who are obsessed with their parsing in all content.

Nobody here is saying the game should only be catered to raiders. I'm a "casual" raider at best, I don't really care about my parse and the clear is more important to me. This doesn't mean I do not want to put in the effort to get better at my job, because the better I am the more helpful I am to my team. This is a team game, and everything in it is a combined effort.

If adding more healing [mechanics/buttons] makes it too hard for the non raiders it shouldn't be considered. And for the record yes, I could do savage this tier if I wanted to, except its not worth it right now since gear isn't worth it. I'll 100% be doing it though in 6.0 seeing as I'm interested now that I understand how patches flow in this game.

That's the thing though; you can clear every bit of normal mode content in this game without doing any DPS. Seriously; get some friends together and try it. You do not have to do ANYTHING DPS wise as a healer to clear. DPS checks in normal mode are hilariously low to clear, and most of the time normal mode content doesn't even have an enrage check, the boss just keeps looping mechanics until it's cleared. If you wipe, you get echo to buff the party's HP and DPS! The game is set up in such a way that even the most casual of players can clear and experience the story, and I think that's a great thing: I don't want the normal content to be gatekept by anything, because we're all paying to play the game. But adding more options doesn't hurt you in anyway - it only helps by having more options for the people who do want to manage that and want to end the boredom we experience in playing healers.

And saying you "could" do Savage doesn't mean anything to what you're saying in this forum. You can do it now, there's 30ish days before Endwalker comes out, that's easily enough time to PUG at least E9S and E10S because there's a ton of people trying to get into Savage even now. Saying you're not doing it because the gear doesn't matter doesn't make any sense in any context, because when new raid tiers are out, the gear is immediately invalidated by crafting gear, and that's the case for every tier. I did Verse after it had been out a long time back during the content drought in 5.2, and even though I had a lot of augmented Crystarium gear, it was still challenging and fun. The gear only really helps you get clears easier in that tier of Savage or helps out those who are having trouble clearing the last floor of the tier.

[AFuzzyMu11in]

Nobody here is saying the game should only be catered to raiders. I'm a "casual" raider at best, I don't really care about my parse and the clear is more important to me. This doesn't mean I do not want to put in the effort to get better at my job, because the better I am the more helpful I am to my team. This is a team game, and everything in it is a combined effort.



That's the thing though; you can clear every bit of normal mode content in this game without doing any DPS. Seriously; get some friends together and try it. You do not have to do ANYTHING DPS wise as a healer to clear. DPS checks in normal mode are hilariously low to clear, and most of the time normal mode content doesn't even have an enrage check, the boss just keeps looping mechanics until it's cleared. If you wipe, you get echo to buff the party's HP and DPS! The game is set up in such a way that even the most casual of players can clear and experience the story, and I think that's a great thing: I don't want the normal content to be gatekept by anything, because we're all paying to play the game. But adding more options doesn't hurt you in anyway - it only helps by having more options for the people who do want to manage that and want to end the boredom we experience in playing healers.

And saying you "could" do Savage doesn't mean anything to what you're saying in this forum. You can do it now, there's 30ish days before Endwalker comes out, that's easily enough time to PUG at least E9S and E10S because there's a ton of people trying to get into Savage even now. Saying you're not doing it because the gear doesn't matter doesn't make any sense in any context, because when new raid tiers are out, the gear is immediately invalidated by crafting gear, and that's the case for every tier. I did Verse after it had been out a long time back during the content drought in 5.2, and even though I had a lot of augmented Crystarium gear, it was still challenging and fun. The gear only really helps you get clears easier in that tier of Savage or helps out those who are having trouble clearing the last floor of the tier.

Well I’m a carrot stick type of player. I guess I’m sorta lazy. I’m not going to do the challenge for challenge sake. Like if a cool glamour I need is in content then I’ll do it, if it’s a upgrade I MUST have sure but otherwise no. And I do care about getting better actually, I practice on the sky sea dummy sometimes as well. Trust me the only thing I care about is letting healer keep it’s non dps identity of a simplistic rotation/opener

[Saefinn]

Well I’m a carrot stick type of player. I guess I’m sorta lazy. I’m not going to do the challenge for challenge sake. Like if a cool glamour I need is in content then I’ll do it, if it’s a upgrade I MUST have sure but otherwise no. And I do care about getting better actually, I practice on the sky sea dummy sometimes as well. Trust me the only thing I care about is letting healer keep it’s non dps identity of a simplistic rotation/opener

Healers getting more DPS options really shouldn't make a difference to you, just don't put them on your hotbar. If you're not a savage raider then it's not really going to matter, the content is forgiving enough to give you that freedom. Sure you'll be doing less DPS but you're still doing DPS. It's rare that anybody picks on a DPS and says "you're not doing enough damage" or "you've got your rotation all wrong" they just see them doing damage and the mechanics and leave it at that. Especially as it's the kind of things GM's crack down on and for the same reason the devs don't like parsers.

But this way we're both accommodated. I know the devs don't intend to do this, but honestly all we need is the middle ground. You want simplicity, we want variety. There's no reason why we can't have both.

Adding more non-healing buttons won't affect how we heal, or at best it will be mediocre. I repeat; non-healing, it doesn't have to be damage buttons. It appears there are few mistaken that we only want more dps buttons---but no. It's just happens to be one of the easiest options.

Pretty much. I don't mind it being something else, but all other options would raise the skill floor and would require more work from the devs. This game was designed for healers to contribute DPS and this makes for the easier answer.

But really we could add a crowd control element to the game and give those options to healers, historically healer-y types in FF have had them, healers in other MMO's have had them, SW:TOR benefitted well from crowd control mechanics - even to the point of having builds around them. 2.0 SCH had the foundation of it and BLU benefits from it. They could build on that, in fact one of my suggested SCH set ups following the ShB was to replace our old DPS abilities with exactly that and make them more effective. You could take cues from Saboteur in FFXIII. You could design whole mechanics that take advantage of these.

And there could be more variety in status removal, FFXIV reduced it all to 1 button, but other FF titles have had specific items for specific removals (and in XI, specific spells) - they could make a change where you match the removal spells to the status effect. Like Paralyna for Paralyze, Blindna for Blind and maybe even throw in spells that add resistances like null-paralyze. And then design encounters to throw more of these things out.

I'd actually think these dynamics would be more interesting than DPS complexity, they'd keep us busy and they'd be more role appropriate than DPS. But it'd not just be a job design change here, it'd be more than that as other game design elements would need changes, but I expect it would make things tougher for lower end healers because there'd be a greater necessity to use them.

But nobody could really use the "healers heal" argument because CC means people are taking less damage (and we kinda get this with Holy) and the status resistance/removal is a form of healing.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

What I'm saying is that, its obvious that in higher content, or rather the better a player you are, gear etc that you will have to heal less. What I'm saying is I get that "raiders" are bored from broil spam, but the game isn't meant to just cater to raiders only type players, who are obsessed with their parsing in all content. If adding more healing [mechanics/buttons] makes it too hard for the non raiders it shouldn't be considered.

And it has been stated and proven several times that the more available buttons to press does -not- equal to making gameplay (as in healing) harder to less experienced players. This is what people had been calling 'raising skill ceiling'. Less experienced will simply not care about optimizing their extra button potentials or probably won't even bother at all with those extra buttons. More experienced healers however can dabble around with their toys and still have fun.

Unsurprisingly this ALSO applies to not only DPS buttons, but also our healing buttons. It is similarly reflected by your replies about how you handle your healing gameplay. Don't believe me? Here:

• Those "parsing obsessed raiders" plan to prevent emergencies. The two healers---pugs and/or static---plan to make sure majority bulk of healings are dealt with oGCDs (yes, including some mistake made) so they have can as much GCDs spent to cast Glaroilfisis. Succor/Medica II/Helioses/Cure II/Benefic II/Adlos are their readily available spell to use in case they run out of oGCDs and they -have- to use it to prevent deaths.
• Vs you who claimed to have done "EX/Savage" which are littered with plenty of random mistakes (which is already plain wrong) to the extent you have to plan to recover emergencies. You hold on to those tools for so long you'll probably drift or accumulate missed opportunities that you could've otherwise use to contribute more for your group. Oh and don't forget: you also openly admit that it wasn't your job to rely on your co-healer, which essentially gimps the overall group's capability whether you intend to or not. Your co-healer becomes uncertain how to work with you efficiently, increasing the likelihood of cases in wasting tools.

In other word, it doesn't matter even if SE gives us more healing button however potent or useful they are---if the said less experienced player simply do not care to improve... they won't. Your gameplay based on your replies are the living example to this.

Now if you're solely talking about progression, then by all means: go ahead and play in reserved manner. You are supposed to live as long as possible to increase the likelihood to learn & understand the encounter's mechanics...

Except we're not, which now only make sense: you 99.99% sure -never- heal ShB Savages. Your words are weightless as is your contribution to those 'hypothetical raids' you speak of.