The Problems With Ninja In Endwalker

[SamSmoot]

Then Ninja gets not one, but two gap closers that it is ostensibly forced to use immediately regardless of mechanics or simply lose them, and cannot use anything aside from a non-raiton ninjutsu after using raiton otherwise they are simply lost.

Why are the Raijus forced? If using them would land you in the fire, then just use something else.
The thing that confuses me about then is that they're both gap closers. If you just used Forked Raiju, then the gap is already closed, and there's no reason for the gap closer in Fleeting Raiju.
It might be more useful if the first one moved you away from the target like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ4VnBUqVAQ&t=33s then the second one back in. (I have no idea what does the jump back thing in the video link

[kackal_Jackal]

Why are the Raijus forced? If using them would land you in the fire, then just use something else.
The thing that confuses me about then is that they're both gap closers. If you just used Forked Raiju, then the gap is already closed, and there's no reason for the gap closer in Fleeting Raiju.
It might be more useful if the first one moved you away from the target like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ4VnBUqVAQ&t=33s then the second one back in. (I have no idea what does the jump back thing in the video link

How it is based off the Media Tour is that if you were to execute Raiton, then proceed to do any other weaponskill (Gust, Aeolian, etc), you WILL lose your Forked Raiju Ready buff. If any weaponskill breaks Raiju Ready, then you're absolutely forced to use them back-to-back. Only thing that doesn't is ninjutsus (excluding Raiton), but there's no optimal situation where you'd even do that without taking some sort of loss.

[Victalis]

Why are the Raijus forced? If using them would land you in the fire, then just use something else.
The thing that confuses me about then is that they're both gap closers. If you just used Forked Raiju, then the gap is already closed, and there's no reason for the gap closer in Fleeting Raiju.
It might be more useful if the first one moved you away from the target like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ4VnBUqVAQ&t=33s then the second one back in. (I have no idea what does the jump back thing in the video link

They are forced by the way they are shown to function in the media tour footage. Like Jackal said, you use them immediately or you lose them by overwriting one way or the other. Additionally, they are gcds. No other job in the game has a gap closer on the gcd, let alone as a breakable combo action, precisely because gap closing is supposed to be at least in partition, at player discretion for the purposes of dealing with mechanics. It is quite possibly the single most restrictive job mechanic for any job in the game in recent memory in its current iteration.

[SamSmoot]

How it is based off the Media Tour is that if you were to execute Raiton, then proceed to do any other weaponskill (Gust, Aeolian, etc), you WILL lose your Forked Raiju Ready buff. If any weaponskill breaks Raiju Ready, then you're absolutely forced to use them back-to-back.

But if using them will jump you into a harmful situation, then you just go use one of your weaponskill combos instead. It's not like Raijus execute automatically after a Raiton. They're not forced, just not beneficial to use in some situations.

I guess one case where they might be beneficial is of your have to back off to avoid an AOE, you could hit the boss with Raiton at range, then Raiju to get back into melee range quickly when the AOE is done.
Otherwise. if I'm already in melee range, and did a Raiton, then it's just two more single keys to do 850 worth of potency (with lower Ninki gain than a combo.)

[Seraphor]

"You're forced to use them because using a weaponskill cancels them"
You're only using a weaponskill when you're in melee range anyway...

I'm not seeing the problem. This isn't a "restrictive gap closer", it's bonus gap closers.
The gap closer is still Shukuchi, the one, oGCD skill with multiple charges, like all melee jobs.

Then you also get two weaponskills with bonus gap closer utility attached to them. That's a melee jobs fucking dream come true. Every weaponskill would be better with a gap closer. No more downtime, ever.

This is basically the melee equivalent of Triplecast, when there's multiple AoEs going out, and you have to be moving constantly, but in some cases, you're forced to move in and out of melee range. You get a ranged attack (Raiton), then two gap closers. Three skills back to back that mitigate any distance from the boss.

[rewd]

They are forced by the way they are shown to function in the media tour footage. Like Jackal said, you use them immediately or you lose them by overwriting one way or the other. Additionally, they are gcds. No other job in the game has a gap closer on the gcd, let alone as a breakable combo action, precisely because gap closing is supposed to be at least in partition, at player discretion for the purposes of dealing with mechanics. It is quite possibly the single most restrictive job mechanic for any job in the game in recent memory in its current iteration.

SMN does get a gap closer on the GCD, also part of a combo.

[AnotherPerson]

But if using them will jump you into a harmful situation, then you just go use one of your weaponskill combos instead. It's not like Raijus execute automatically after a Raiton. They're not forced, just not beneficial to use in some situations.

I guess one case where they might be beneficial is of your have to back off to avoid an AOE, you could hit the boss with Raiton at range, then Raiju to get back into melee range quickly when the AOE is done.
Otherwise. if I'm already in melee range, and did a Raiton, then it's just two more single keys to do 850 worth of potency (with lower Ninki gain than a combo.)

I guess the real question is whether it's a potency gain to use it over your 1-2-3 combo since potencies are still subject to change. I'm also not sure if you can use 2 Raitons back to back and get 2 separate Raiju stacks, but I'm assuming they don't and will overwrite the next Raiju buff. From what I can see, it's currently a potency gain over 1-2-3 combo.

Again, if Raiju is a potency increase, then missing out the Fleeting Raiju combo per Raiton would be a huge drawback to the NIN gameplay flow by locking your mudra flexibility. If it's a potency gain to use it, that also means you have to stand in AoE or two to not lose the DPS increase if there's one centered around the boss since it'll disappear otherwise on a different weaponskill or you lose one on your next Raiton. You won't be able to just stay outside of AoE range and just use a double Raiton instead or use a TCJ and continue with a Raiton after if you have to stay outside of the boss' range.

This is basically the melee equivalent of Triplecast, when there's multiple AoEs going out, and you have to be moving constantly, but in some cases, you're forced to move in and out of melee range. You get a ranged attack (Raiton), then two gap closers. Three skills back to back that mitigate any distance from the boss.

Not exactly a melee equivalent of Triplecast. A melee-equivalent of triplecast equivalent would be just any instant-cast weaponskill in melee range. Gap closers specifically direct you towards one direction and becomes much less flexible if it forces a gapcloser in your rotation. Think about RDM. The difference is that RDM actually benefits from this since they have a melee combo and a disengage to go back into range. They have the potential to delay their melee combo because they can hold off on spending their black and white mana for a long time, especially with the new Endwalker changes, so it's not a real problem if they have to enter melee range. Ninja is pretty much the opposite. They have ranged attacks that enable them to stay within a range briefly before going back in (with Shukuchi). However, having a gap closer as part of their ranged rotation locks their ranged mobility by keeping them within melee range at all times. This creates an issue for small disengages if the AoE is big and you need a lot more time to run out of the AoE beyond just a single Raiton, but not beyond 2 Raitons.

Imagine now if RDM was doing their melee rotation, but on your 2nd melee combo skill, displacement's effect changes and and you lose a big damage increase if you don't use it. However, displacement prevents you from using your final melee combo skill immediately by forcing you to run back to the boss to hit it will delay one to two GCDs - in other words, a downgrade to the flexibility in the skill. What does that mean? You have to save corps-a-corps specifically to counter Displacement. That also means corps-a-corps is no longer as flexible as a gapcloser tool because it's being a 'forced' gapcloser. That's basically what people believe fleeting raiju will become in terms of flexibility.

[Kahnom]

They should have made Forked and Fleeting OGCDs or permanent combos like DRG's Wheeling Thrust and Fang & Claw,of course, that would be opposing the job's flexibility but at least we can see the clear intention from dev. team.
But this half-ass Raiton pre-use is just weird,to be honest. It's not neccessary at all.
30 sec duration for GCD is stupid but 30 sec duration for OGCD is good.
If they're OGCD, Since both skills are Rush attack. you can hold them a bit, especially when you know there will be mechanics that you need move away from boss and utilize them just like DRG's Stardiver.

Forked and Fleeting have potential to evolve NiN in this expansion but not the way they are now.
They need to make it clear which direction they want NiN to go.

[ForteNightshade]

It really baffles me Huraijin doesn't simply replace Hide when in-combat since the latter is essentially both button bloat and completely necessary to be on your hotbar. Making them replace one another in and out of combat seems like a fairly simply solution, though maybe it's hard to code?

I really can't add more to the issues with Forked. It almost seems like an intentional nerf considering the other melee lack anywhere near the same flexibility and damage options at range.

[Noraiga]

EDIT: I just check if Shukuchi is useable between Raiju, aaand it is then i don't see any problem anymore with those : /
I'm still really hyped and ready to play with thoses Chidori ! Just having in head to not press Raiju just because i can.

EDIT: I see why people complain about Raiju, at the end for me it's not a big deal, but yes Huraijin... I don't get it, what is the purpose of this skill, like maybe spamming Aeolian Edge and refresh after with Huraijin ??? Anatman in disguise ?!?