The Problems With Ninja In Endwalker

[Warlyx]

Hollow Nozuchi is a bit confusing, in that it can't be assigned to a hotbar, and must follow Hakke Mujinsatsu. Does the Hakke button change to Hollow after being used in a Doton?

If it happens simultaneously with Hakke, it wouldn't need it's own 1.5 sec CD, which implies that it's a separate action. If it is, it's damage falloff after first target would mean a DPS loss over just looping back to Death Blossom after Hakke.

no hakke is just a proc

it works like that > put doton down , use death blossom> hakke and hollow procs here, on all the mobs that are on doton aoe its free aoe dmg while u do your aoe rotation

[SamSmoot]

no hakke is just a proc

it works like that > put doton down , use death blossom> hakke and hollow procs here, on all the mobs that are on doton aoe its free aoe dmg while u do your aoe rotation

Thanks, Seems more like a trait than an action.

[RyuuZero]

My Story first:
I beat Patch Day Vishap as NIN and faced multiple challenges as Ninja aswell, I loved the NIN Rework in Shadowbringers because everything lined up so well and my first impression of Endwalker's NIN was Gasp and Shock THEY REMOVED SHADOWFANG! and what is Huraijin!?

My Leveling Experience:
I lvled NIN with my Trusts and after a slow start, adjusting to Shadowfangless Ninja I come to grow to come to terms with it and even saw the positives like that I don't need to use Macros for my OCDs anymore because of my Controller playstyle. Now Dream within a Dream is where Shadowfang was before and I'd say NIN is playable but Raiju is a Problem!

I have multiple Problems with Raiju:
1. GCD Double Tap Gap Closer even though Shukuchi still exists with it's Raiton reset trait
2. Raiton proc requirement with a 15sec duration and it's easy to lose those procs
3. as a Result of Point 1 & 2 Raiju is heavily restricting and plays against the general design of NIN Playstyle (in my opinion)

My Idea to Fix Raiju:
Let the Phantom-Kamaitachi perform Raiju instead of the Player outside of Bunshin,
imagine it like this:
NIN does Raiton, gets Raiju proc, presses the Phantom-Kamaitachi button and the Phantom performs both Raiju Skills.
That way the NIN doesn't get restricted mobility like Raiju does now and to be frank, when I saw Raiju in the Job Action Trailer I thought to myself just why?^^ it's sad that this lvl90 skill causes so many problems

[Victalis]

Why are the Raijus forced? If using them would land you in the fire, then just use something else.
The thing that confuses me about then is that they're both gap closers. If you just used Forked Raiju, then the gap is already closed, and there's no reason for the gap closer in Fleeting Raiju.
It might be more useful if the first one moved you away from the target like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ4VnBUqVAQ&t=33s then the second one back in. (I have no idea what does the jump back thing in the video link

They are forced by the way they are shown to function in the media tour footage. Like Jackal said, you use them immediately or you lose them by overwriting one way or the other. Additionally, they are gcds. No other job in the game has a gap closer on the gcd, let alone as a breakable combo action, precisely because gap closing is supposed to be at least in partition, at player discretion for the purposes of dealing with mechanics. It is quite possibly the single most restrictive job mechanic for any job in the game in recent memory in its current iteration.

[rewd]

They are forced by the way they are shown to function in the media tour footage. Like Jackal said, you use them immediately or you lose them by overwriting one way or the other. Additionally, they are gcds. No other job in the game has a gap closer on the gcd, let alone as a breakable combo action, precisely because gap closing is supposed to be at least in partition, at player discretion for the purposes of dealing with mechanics. It is quite possibly the single most restrictive job mechanic for any job in the game in recent memory in its current iteration.

SMN does get a gap closer on the GCD, also part of a combo.

[Seraphor]

"You're forced to use them because using a weaponskill cancels them"
You're only using a weaponskill when you're in melee range anyway...

I'm not seeing the problem. This isn't a "restrictive gap closer", it's bonus gap closers.
The gap closer is still Shukuchi, the one, oGCD skill with multiple charges, like all melee jobs.

Then you also get two weaponskills with bonus gap closer utility attached to them. That's a melee jobs fucking dream come true. Every weaponskill would be better with a gap closer. No more downtime, ever.

This is basically the melee equivalent of Triplecast, when there's multiple AoEs going out, and you have to be moving constantly, but in some cases, you're forced to move in and out of melee range. You get a ranged attack (Raiton), then two gap closers. Three skills back to back that mitigate any distance from the boss.

[AnotherPerson]

But if using them will jump you into a harmful situation, then you just go use one of your weaponskill combos instead. It's not like Raijus execute automatically after a Raiton. They're not forced, just not beneficial to use in some situations.

I guess one case where they might be beneficial is of your have to back off to avoid an AOE, you could hit the boss with Raiton at range, then Raiju to get back into melee range quickly when the AOE is done.
Otherwise. if I'm already in melee range, and did a Raiton, then it's just two more single keys to do 850 worth of potency (with lower Ninki gain than a combo.)

I guess the real question is whether it's a potency gain to use it over your 1-2-3 combo since potencies are still subject to change. I'm also not sure if you can use 2 Raitons back to back and get 2 separate Raiju stacks, but I'm assuming they don't and will overwrite the next Raiju buff. From what I can see, it's currently a potency gain over 1-2-3 combo.

Again, if Raiju is a potency increase, then missing out the Fleeting Raiju combo per Raiton would be a huge drawback to the NIN gameplay flow by locking your mudra flexibility. If it's a potency gain to use it, that also means you have to stand in AoE or two to not lose the DPS increase if there's one centered around the boss since it'll disappear otherwise on a different weaponskill or you lose one on your next Raiton. You won't be able to just stay outside of AoE range and just use a double Raiton instead or use a TCJ and continue with a Raiton after if you have to stay outside of the boss' range.

This is basically the melee equivalent of Triplecast, when there's multiple AoEs going out, and you have to be moving constantly, but in some cases, you're forced to move in and out of melee range. You get a ranged attack (Raiton), then two gap closers. Three skills back to back that mitigate any distance from the boss.

Not exactly a melee equivalent of Triplecast. A melee-equivalent of triplecast equivalent would be just any instant-cast weaponskill in melee range. Gap closers specifically direct you towards one direction and becomes much less flexible if it forces a gapcloser in your rotation. Think about RDM. The difference is that RDM actually benefits from this since they have a melee combo and a disengage to go back into range. They have the potential to delay their melee combo because they can hold off on spending their black and white mana for a long time, especially with the new Endwalker changes, so it's not a real problem if they have to enter melee range. Ninja is pretty much the opposite. They have ranged attacks that enable them to stay within a range briefly before going back in (with Shukuchi). However, having a gap closer as part of their ranged rotation locks their ranged mobility by keeping them within melee range at all times. This creates an issue for small disengages if the AoE is big and you need a lot more time to run out of the AoE beyond just a single Raiton, but not beyond 2 Raitons.

Imagine now if RDM was doing their melee rotation, but on your 2nd melee combo skill, displacement's effect changes and and you lose a big damage increase if you don't use it. However, displacement prevents you from using your final melee combo skill immediately by forcing you to run back to the boss to hit it will delay one to two GCDs - in other words, a downgrade to the flexibility in the skill. What does that mean? You have to save corps-a-corps specifically to counter Displacement. That also means corps-a-corps is no longer as flexible as a gapcloser tool because it's being a 'forced' gapcloser. That's basically what people believe fleeting raiju will become in terms of flexibility.

[Seraphor]

Not exactly a melee equivalent of Triplecast. A melee-equivalent of triplecast equivalent would be just any instant-cast weaponskill in melee range. Gap closers specifically direct you towards one direction and becomes much less flexible if it forces a gapcloser in your rotation. Think about RDM. The difference is that RDM actually benefits from this since they have a melee combo and a disengage to go back into range. They have the potential to delay their melee combo because they can hold off on spending their black and white mana for a long time, especially with the new Endwalker changes, so it's not a real problem if they have to enter melee range. Ninja is pretty much the opposite. They have ranged attacks that enable them to stay within a range briefly before going back in (with Shukuchi). However, having a gap closer as part of their ranged rotation locks their ranged mobility by keeping them within melee range at all times. This creates an issue for small disengages if the AoE is big and you need a lot more time to run out of the AoE beyond just a single Raiton, but not beyond 2 Raitons.

Imagine now if RDM was doing their melee rotation, but on your 2nd melee combo skill, displacement's effect changes and and you lose a big damage increase if you don't use it. However, displacement prevents you from using your final melee combo skill immediately by forcing you to run back to the boss to hit it will delay one to two GCDs - in other words, a downgrade to the flexibility in the skill. What does that mean? You have to save corps-a-corps specifically to counter Displacement. That also means corps-a-corps is no longer as flexible as a gapcloser tool because it's being a 'forced' gapcloser. That's basically what people believe fleeting raiju will become in terms of flexibility.

"Not exactly a melee equivalent of Triplecast. A melee-equivalent of triplecast equivalent would be just any instant-cast weaponskill in melee range."
You just described every single weaponskill ever.

Melee don't have to worry about movement, they have to worry about distance. Distance is the melee equivalent to a casters movement, therefore this is the equivalent of Triplecast.

[AnotherPerson]

"Not exactly a melee equivalent of Triplecast. A melee-equivalent of triplecast equivalent would be just any instant-cast weaponskill in melee range."
You just described every single weaponskill ever.

Melee don't have to worry about movement, they have to worry about distance. Distance is the melee equivalent to a casters movement, therefore this is the equivalent of Triplecast.

If you mean the melee-equivalent of triple cast for Long distance mobility, then it would be something you can use at a distance (ex: throwing daggers or raiton). That would be a true melee-equivalent of Triple cast, since triple cast enables free mobility while continually casting in whatever direction you want to move. That would be way better than what Raiju is currently since you can always use it while moving closer to the boss, or moving to the opposite side of the boss during a proximity attack mechanic without directly jumping back to the boss.


As for Huraijin, I assume they just gave it to us because it's slightly less penalizing to die and have to get Huton back up by using this skill. Otherwise, you just use Armor Crush to upkeep the skill. It's a non-issue for this skill, though the potency for Phantom Kamataichi seems absurdly low since it's still eats up a Bunshin stack. Potencies are still subjected to change so I'm not too worried about it.

[Taranok]

If you mean the melee-equivalent of triple cast for Long distance mobility, then it would be something you can use at a distance (ex: throwing daggers or raiton). That would be a true melee-equivalent of Triple cast, since triple cast enables free mobility while continually casting in whatever direction you want to move. That would be way better than what Raiju is currently since you can always use it while moving closer to the boss, or moving to the opposite side of the boss during a proximity attack mechanic without directly jumping back to the boss.


As for Huraijin, I assume they just gave it to us because it's slightly less penalizing to die and have to get Huton back up by using this skill. Otherwise, you just use Armor Crush to upkeep the skill. It's a non-issue for this skill, though the potency for Phantom Kamataichi seems absurdly low since it's still eats up a Bunshin stack. Potencies are still subjected to change so I'm not too worried about it.

Huraijin also simplifies the reopener process during a mandatory huton drop, such as E8S transition or E11S fog. Though when you start adding abilities specifically to counter the encounter design because of how troublesome losing those buffs actually is, I start to question if you need that maintenance buff to begin with.