It's time to hire dedicated Tank an Healer devs!

[GeminiReed]

This is a big reason games like Guildwars have thrown roles out the window, allowing each job to spec somewhat, but ultimately each job is self reliant. While fun, it feels less like a party based MMO and more like playing 3D street fighter. It works in GW, but with the trinity being so core to FFXIV, the Devs gotta do what they gotta do to keep active numbers up in those two roles.

You mean ZergWars? By attempting abandon roles all the open world content devolved into N+1 fights. Their instanced content hadn't fared much better to the point where they needed to (sorta) reintroduce roles just so they could design interesting mechanics. Role-less designs are a monkey's paw (you think you want it but you don't)

[kaynide]

Yeah, but like, between being something complex no one wants to touch and literally using 1 button most of the time, because your encounter design allows it, since you have overpowered healing ogcd healing skills and the lack of need for all of them given that the damage comes in bursts that you can easily recover...... There's a huge gap. There's a concept that is called learning curve, and a class can be easier to start but rewarding to master, which isn't the case WITH HEALERS. You can also have options, like an easy WHM (that being said, again... easy =/= spam 1 button) and a more complex ast, or vice-versa. You don't really need to spread this "easy mode" across all the options or leave it at supposedly just one (sage, which doesn't really look like it is truly escaping from the one button spam hell, but we shall see).

Dancer is a very easy class, but still feels "dynamic" at least when you play it. People are simply asking to stop spamming one button forever the better you get at the class. And you don't even need to be good at it to achieve this stage, the content literally throws you at it because of the way it is designed, and unless you go for the hardcore content (and even there...), you don't really have any options to avoid the spam glare/malefic/broil hell.

I mean, Whm has a lot going on- juggling regen/medica to make lilies so you can instant heal, and juggling them and your actual hard costs while also throwing in your dot.

It’s not rocket science hard or anything, but to ignore the mechanics of its healing kit to say it just has a 1 button rotation has always felt disingenuous.

You mean ZergWars? By attempting abandon roles all the open world content devolved into N+1 fights. Their instanced content hadn't fared much better to the point where they needed to (sorta) reintroduce roles just so they could design interesting mechanics. Role-less designs are a monkey's paw (you think you want it but you don't)

GW has basically abandoned instanced content outside of main story though? And even that is mostly faceroll. I’m not really sure what roles you are meaning in the specs, as nothing in that game would function as a healer or tank in the common understanding of the word. I mean I could get tankier gear/skills, but there is basically nothing that forces mobs on me while my teammates do their thing.

It works for what it’s trying to do and has been largely enjoyable to my solo playing self.

The point of my post was to demonstrate that some games make a lack of roles work, but FFXIV isn’t that game, and that is why healers lack a DPS rotation of any kind. Love it or hate it, this is what the devs have decided on, and I for one support it because players like my wife wouldn’t even try healing if they had to focus on anything else.

As she often says “I’ll try to throw a stone when I can, but I’m focused on dodging the floor and also watching your health bars”

[FrogDog]

I saw an interview Zepla did with Yoshi P and I was stunned by out of touch he seemed to be with the healer meta of his own game and it left me wondering where exactly are the devs pulling this feedback from? Also shocking were some delusional comments on the video from players acting like healers DPSing in high-end content is some new, revolutionary concept. What game are they playing?

https://youtu.be/8_mdi8RMbRk?t=1236

The interview in question with timestamp

I mean, Whm has a lot going on- juggling regen/medica to make lilies so you can instant heal, and juggling them and your actual hard costs while also throwing in your dot.

It’s not rocket science hard or anything, but to ignore the mechanics of its healing kit to say it just has a 1 button rotation has always felt disingenuous.

That's not how lilies work, they're a flat resource that you get one of every 30s. There really should be no "juggling" of regen and Medica II either. Regen goes on tank, and if you need to heal on the move or do an AoE heal there are ogcds that you would go through before Regen or Medica II ideally.

[Deveryn]

I saw an interview Zepla did with Yoshi P and I was stunned by out of touch he seemed to be with the healer meta of his own game and it left me wondering where exactly are the devs pulling this feedback from? Also shocking were some delusional comments on the video from players acting like healers DPSing in high-end content is some new, revolutionary concept. What game are they playing?

https://youtu.be/8_mdi8RMbRk?t=1236

The interview in question with timestamp.

What game are they playing? The same one we are, as he notes in the very same interview. For better healer commentary, you might try MTQ for more healer talk.

https://youtu.be/kAbCjPPS1RQ

As for the Zepla interview, what exactly is wrong with the answer?

They're pulling the feedback from whatever the best source is, where things are communicated better, which is something he comments on in Zepla's interview. Saying someone is out of touch and not really elaborating on what could be done is a great way to keep dragging this on and see no change.

[FrogDog]

What game are they playing? The same one we are, as he notes in the very same interview. For better healer commentary, you might try MTQ for more healer talk.

https://youtu.be/kAbCjPPS1RQ

As for the Zepla interview, what exactly is wrong with the answer?

They're pulling the feedback from whatever the best source is, where things are communicated better, which is something he comments on in Zepla's interview. Saying someone is out of touch and not really elaborating on what could be done is a great way to keep dragging this on and see no change.

What's wrong with the answer is that the meta is for healers to DPS. Yoshi P has said in the past they don't design encounters around healers DPSing yet that seems to fly in the face of actual encounter design and enrage mechanics. So here he is saying they were pulling in feedback from high-end players who were tired of healing all the time and wanted more opportunity to do DPS.

Meanwhile you look elsewhere, beyond what Yoshi P says, and you see feedback of people asking for more complex DPS rotations or more healing required. So again, where are the devs pulling their feedback from because it seems to be for a very different game. The one I'm playing is designed around highly scripted damage and ogcd healing between single button DPS spam.

[Lauront]

What's wrong with the answer is that the meta is for healers to DPS. Yoshi P has said in the past they don't design encounters around healers DPSing yet that seems to fly in the face of actual encounter design and enrage mechanics. So here he is saying they were pulling in feedback from high-end players who were tired of healing all the time and wanted more opportunity to do DPS.

Meanwhile you look elsewhere, beyond what Yoshi P says, and you see feedback of people asking for more complex DPS rotations or more healing required. So again, where are the devs pulling their feedback from because it seems to be for a very different game. The one I'm playing is designed around highly scripted damage and ogcd healing between single button DPS spam.

It's like the Glare spam. Healers have so many instant tools to heal, that I can't really see why adding a bit more complexity to the dps rotation will mean less skilled players can't play the job. The healing is already overkill in most cases (to the point that it trivialises a lot of content outside of savage and in a bad way imo), so what is so hard about adding a few more buttons/CDs to the rotation? Hitting 1 button for the dps phases, which can be pretty long, is dull, no matter how you slice it.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I just want to say too, another example of them clearly not playing their own game. Yoshi P went on to say that Sage is the “dps healer.”Yet, it literally has the same exact number of dps skills as ast…. hello?

[Jeeqbit]

I saw an interview Zepla did with Yoshi P and I was stunned by out of touch he seemed to be with the healer meta of his own game and it left me wondering where exactly are the devs pulling this feedback from? Also shocking were some delusional comments on the video from players acting like healers DPSing in high-end content is some new, revolutionary concept. What game are they playing?

In JP people queue for savage and that means healers that spam cure would be likely to queue. If we take into account how sprouts queue for extremes and do them with mentors an argument could be made that it's a thing.

[Melorie]

In JP people queue for savage and that means healers that spam cure would be likely to queue. If we take into account how sprouts queue for extremes and do them with mentors an argument could be made that it's a thing.

That doesn't really change his point, though? If you're playing as a DPS or a tank and choose to only use one tiny small part of your kit while doing savage or extremes, people would tell you that you can't do that. And you probably would fail your party by doing that. They would tell you that you have to learn your rotation, you have to use and plan your cooldowns. Why are we healers the class that it's okay to be dumbed-down to the point that there's no learning curve? No rewards for getting better, no optimization? Why should the devs give an entire kit to a class and balance it around people that want to use only spam Cure in savages (i'm not even talking about DPSing here, if you spam Cure you're literally not using 80% of your kit)? That makes no sense.
I would consider myself a casual player, and I don't really see why people defend this.
There's nothing wrong in failing and getting better, it's part of the game and besides in the optional content you won't really encounter failure that much regardless.

If you're queuing for savage, you also probably want to have a challenge, and you also want to get better at your class. Besides, afaik healer DPS is not counted when planning fights, so you can still only heal and clear it. But the better you get at the fight, the more down-time you'll have with nothing to do besides glare. And the encounter design made around bursts doesn't really help to solve this issue.

[Deceptus]

And the encounter design made around bursts doesn't really help to solve this issue.

This has been said by Yoshi numerous times but reality doesn't mesh with what he says.

Eden Savage wasn't clearable at min ilvl without significant healer dps.