"gogogo" might make me quit this game.

[Ronduwil]

One of the main reasons that trusts do not use aoe abilities is because they were designed to be slower than normal players. Thus, logic follows that if you cannot handle aoeing multiple packs at a time, then use npcs instead of burdening normal players who are understood by the devs to clear instances at a faster pace.

OK, but:

1. Trusts don't award tomestones
2. Trusts don't start until level 70

Unless SE changes that, comparing Trusts to the roulette is comparing apples to oranges.

[SturmChurro]

It's quite obvious that in this game they expect players to pull more than one pack at a time, or at least have enough competency to clear a dungeon in under 30 minutes. Which is why trusts last 30 minutes. They are supposed to be a longer alternative, so players do not just choose to play trusts, I'd assume. That probably even factors a (light) wait time.

[ForteNightshade]

Then don't queue for leveling roulette.

I wasn't aware you were the arbiter of Roulettes. Just because I can get lower level dungeons doesn't mean I have to coddle new players, especially since they may not necessarily be new to the game but simply the dungeon. Granted, I'll be more cautious with a baby in Stone Vigil over Holminster Switch but I'm still going to pull more aggressively because the content has been nerfed so far into the ground I can safely do so.

So it took a wipe before you exercised a little consideration for the new healer. That's consistent with my experience in the roulette, and that was the entire point I was trying to make. Thanks.

Unlike you and several others, I don't view a wipe as some big colossal failure. They handled the double pulls just fine but were a little behind when I went ahead pulling all the zombies; which I didn't notice. We wiped as a result. Shocking, I know, but this isn't a big deal. We continued along without it being a big deal when I double pulled later. Mistakes can happen.

You're drastically oversimplifying. I'm talking about oddball mechanics like the Blizzards in Snowcloak that players sometimes stand in while fighting. What do orange circles have to do with the tank going down too quickly for the healer to keep up? The healer can dodge orange circles all day, and the tank is still going to go down if he's soaking them all while also pulling multiple packs. Also, there is no "under 60" option in the leveling roulette once you've hit 60. You just get whatever someone else needs. That almost guarantees that you're going to have at least one new player in any given 60+ instance via the leveling roulette.

No. You are drastically overestimating how difficult big pulls actually are. I cited orange circles because tanks are only ever in danger of dying pulling two packs of mobs if they aren't dodging said circles. We're not talking about super pulls here where the tank has ten mobs on them like you can pull off in Doma Castle or Mt. Gulg. We're talking about 4-6 mobs instead of two. They deal laughably low damage. That blizzard mechanic doesn't matter if the tank uses CDs, which they should be aware of by level 51. If they aren't, the pull size isn't the issue but their lack of common sense. Otherwise, you can just chime in chat, asking them to pull away from the blizzard. Then the pull size goes back to being just as easy as it always was.

You're not going to see many new players in Holminster Switch, either, because you can do it via a Trust (which is what I did my first time through).

You clearly don't queue for Leveling often. I've seen all sorts of players in Holminster Switch. Many of us have because the amount of people who just try blitzing through the game expecting to be carried is staggering. You aren't new at 51 any more than you are at 71. By this point, you're more than half way to level cap. How dare we have a standard of basic understanding for your chosen job.

That may be so in your endgame gear. That's not true of a brand new tank who hasn't even realized that they can go to the splendors vendor to purchase a full level-appropriate set every ten levels starting at 50. I've seen too many paper tanks in the roulette to agree with your statement. Once I've blown my cooldowns and exhausted my lilies as a WHM, I can only spam Cure II so quickly.

Nope. I have done Brayflux double pulls in a hodgepodge of gear below 32 on my alt. I've double pulled every HW dungeons in full Ironworks; used various bits and pieces of gear going through Stormblood and wall pulled every single dungeon in Shadowbringers from the very first day; in my i400 gear. I didn't do any of the super pulls save for Don Mheg's, but that's also because I wasn't aware of them at the time. Either way, we're back to you grossly overestimating the difficulty of double pulls. Now I certainly don't expect less experienced tanks pulling everything in sight even at 71, but two packs is laughably easy. If they're struggling, it's either a cooldown problem or the healer isn't paying attention. In both scenarios, the pull size (4-6 mobs, just so we're clear) isn't the issue. It's the players not bothering to learn their jobs and getting upset other peoples aren't willing to coddle them.

[Rowde]

The reward is for playing through content that you otherwise wouldn't want to do in order to benefit newer players who are not necessarily even getting the same rewards that you are. You're not getting those 50 tomestones just for completing a dungeon that you've outleveled long ago. You're getting that rewards for accommodating newer players. Honestly, most of the people in the game seem to understand that. The elitism on these forums is in no way indicative of anything I've seen in the game. The MSQ is a classic case in point. It rewards 50 tomestones, and everything falls right over. They even drove the point home by making the cut scenes unskippable so that new players don't come out of their cut scene only to find out that a bunch of jerks facerolled the boss before their cut scene was even over. You're trying to counter a "bad take" with a take of your own that is completely at odds with the way the game is designed.

Oh okay, shifting goalposts now. Like you're original point was "How silly this ppl are for signing up for a dungeon and then wanting to get out of the dungeon so quick"

I point out the incentive is the reward structure not the running of the dungeon itself.

So now you completely abandon your first point and make yet another vapid call to some moral standard nonsense. You point at a bandaid they threw over a failed experiment as some kind of proof of intent. If that truly were the case, then all cutscenes in all dungeons would be un-skippable. Instead, and this is strange... they implemented a system where players could run MSQ content with NPCs. These NPCS go as slow or as fast as they want... and this system is continuing in the next expansion. Almost as if... they want to give players that don't want to engage in the community meta a way out...

[SturmChurro]

(..) grossly overestimating the difficulty of double pulls. Now I certainly don't expect less experienced tanks pulling everything in sight even at 71, but two packs is laughably easy. If they're struggling, it's either a cooldown problem or the healer isn't paying attention. In both scenarios, the pull size (4-6 mobs, just so we're clear) isn't the issue. It's the players not bothering to learn their jobs and getting upset other peoples aren't willing to coddle them.

Yeah, with a good party (DPS, heals, and tank) even the "scary" pulls are easy. Bigger pulls are incredibly easy and routine, for me, that I will only notice a problem when this factors in, and you can then easily understand exactly why your party has wiped. Either through DPS taking forever, single targetting (not aoeing), healer not contributing to DPS/healing well... Yes, holy helps a lot. For example, as a tank, when I see a white mage, their benediction factors into whether I will take the risk and pull a massive full pull, and my dcd usage. Most players are (or should be) competent enough to do most regular - yes, regular - sized pulls in the majority of dungeons, especially by mid-late game, in my opinion.

[Saraide]

Yeah, with a good party (DPS, heals, and tank) even the "scary" pulls are easy. Bigger pulls are incredibly easy and routine, for me, that I will only notice a problem when this factors in, and you can then easily understand exactly why your party has wiped. Either through DPS taking forever, single targetting (not aoeing), healer not contributing to DPS/healing well... Yes, holy helps a lot. For example, as a tank, when I see a white mage, their benediction factors into whether I will take the risk and pull a massive full pull, and my dcd usage. Most players are (or should be) competent enough to do most regular - yes, regular - sized pulls in the majority of dungeons, especially by mid-late game, in my opinion.

Healer AoE damage is actually insane. People look at single target damage numbers and go 'ah healer damage isnt that important anyway' (which is false there aswell) but against trash groups healers are some of the best dps.

[Kolaina]

blah blah

As far as being rewarded for helping new players, let me remind you that its not only the “veterans” that get rewarded. The new players get a better chance at a smooth run, maybe some insight, watching experienced players handle mechanics so as to learn from them and most importantly, their duty even popping in the first place. There was a time when roulettes were not a thing. You needed ifrit normal? Better hope a standard party worth of people also needs it or you’ll be waiting a long time. I was there, waiting in the ifrit cave for a couple hours that first week of launch. So lets not act like we owe something to the newbies for getting a slight incentive to run old content. They need people to run that content just so newbies aren’t stuck in queue. Its more to their benefit than anyone else’s.
As far as entitled for wanting to run efficiently… you nor anyone else should feel entitled to more of anyone’s time than it takes to complete the duty. If they want to run it to the meta, being a fast run, that’s what you get. You wanting them to slow down, and give you more of their time that they could be spending on something to their own benefit? Well now that’s entitlement. I’d get that in check

[MaxCarnage]

The reward is for playing through content that you otherwise wouldn't want to do in order to benefit newer players who are not necessarily even getting the same rewards that you are. You're not getting those 50 tomestones just for completing a dungeon that you've outleveled long ago. You're getting that rewards for accommodating newer players. Honestly, most of the people in the game seem to understand that. The elitism on these forums is in no way indicative of anything I've seen in the game. The MSQ is a classic case in point. It rewards 50 tomestones, and everything falls right over. They even drove the point home by making the cut scenes unskippable so that new players don't come out of their cut scene only to find out that a bunch of jerks facerolled the boss before their cut scene was even over. You're trying to counter a "bad take" with a take of your own that is completely at odds with the way the game is designed.

Except, and here's the kicker, I'm not queueing for roulettes out of the goodness of my heart, here. I'm not sitting there, tapping my chin, ho-humming about what to do with my time only to decide, "hey, I know! I'm going to queue for old content to help new players. I don't need it, I just want to be nice!" You know alt jobs exist, right? And to level those alt jobs, I have to run ~old content~. Roulettes exist for faster queues all-around. They don't exist solely for new players.

Someone already pointed out to you that they didn't make lvl 50 MSQ cutscenes unskippable to try and tell players to slow down and wait. They did it because it was literally possible to finish the ENTIRE DUNGEON before the third cutscene was even over. The length of the dungeon is entirely cutscenes. The actual content in that dungeon takes less than 6 minutes. That's why they're unskippable. If the developers cared about making sure that everyone got to watch their cutscenes and there was no risk of anyone pulling while someone was in them, all cutscenes would be unskippable. Get that through your head, since you're so hell-bent on trying to use that as an argument. The way MSQ roulette dungeons are handled is no way reflective of how the game is supposed to be played. They are the only two dungeons in the entire game where the cutscenes last longer than the actual content in the dungeon. Therefore, and I'll say this slow so you can understand, they do not, in any way, shape or form, reflect how the rest of the game is to be handled.

Stop hiding behind new players to excuse your laziness.

[Bsrking5]

It's quite obvious that in this game they expect players to pull more than one pack at a time, or at least have enough competency to clear a dungeon in under 30 minutes. Which is why trusts last 30 minutes. They are supposed to be a longer alternative, so players do not just choose to play trusts, I'd assume. That probably even factors a (light) wait time.

Even semi afking in trust you can still beat dungeons in less than 30 minutes. In fact trust occasionally are faster than real players. By semi afk i do mean literally zero damage and just dodging bosses aoes as a dps. Most dungeon take between 12 and 16 minutes with normal wall to wall pulls. Longest trust take is about is about 26 minutes with my average clear time around 18 minutes. Clearly they expecting players to clear in less than 15 minutes which is why trust take more than that. The rest of the time is so players can explore the instance and see every detail.

[Yuella]

I think people are over exaggerating the length of single-pull runs.

In my experience, w2w runs are about 15 minutes while single pull runs are about 20 minutes.