Mentor abuse DC on purpose

[Xirean]

This can't be serious.. envy?

I was once a mentor, and I can still become a mentor at anytime I wanted. I choose to not be associated with this system, or the expectations of being one. So that "point" is moot. My criticisms are of the system as a whole, and the flaws I see with it. If a player signs up to be a mentor, they should either meet those expectations, or lose it, in my opinion. No one has forced them to be one. By wearing that crown, a player has taken on the responsibility of being a mentor, and if that means they have to do extremes? So be it.

For someone who has gripes against the system you sure do display your gripes against people a lot. From my understanding though you want the expectations to be higher whereas I want the expectations lower. Like I said earlier. Lets talk about the system as a system and not about the people.

[SturmChurro]

For someone who has gripes against the system you sure do display your gripes against people a lot. From my understanding though you want the expectations to be higher whereas I want the expectations lower. Like I said earlier. Lets talk about the system as a system and not about the people.

No, I want the expectations to be exactly as they are written. No more, no less. It is a requirement to clear a large variety of content - including extremes - to even access the mentor roulette. This is, presumably, so mentors who are doing the roulette have prior experience of whatever the roulette puts them in. A mentor who DCs to avoid the in-game punishment for leaving, is not the behavior of someone who is acting as an "exemplar for player etiquette". As I stated before, nobody forced them to become a mentor, nobody forced them to queue for the mentor roulette, and if they don't want to do an extreme - which is included in the roulette- they can either not queue for it, or LEAVE it. I have talked about what I think are the flaws in the system already, many, many times over. The reward needs to be removed from mentor roulette specifically, as you get players who are queuing for it specifically to get clears for achievement progress, rather than to perform their role as mentor, and it would need a large amount of oversight by SE to actually function as intended, in my opinion.

Moving extremes to their own roulette wouldn't fix this issue at all, as new players who are queuing for extremes via the duty finder will simply find a dead queue that nobody aside from them is doing, and all just so some mentors can avoid it, because they might think it's an inconvenience. As I stated before, if extremes are removed the mount reward needs to be removed with it, as it's there to encourage players to clear the roulette whether it was an extreme or not.

[Xirean]

snip

That's all interpretation. "Examplar of player etiquette" can mean whatever you want it to mean. Some people want dungeons to be harder and anyone who thinks otherwise is therefor stupid and bad and shouldn't play, are they an examplar? Probably not, but that person can become a mentor and go with the mindset that their perception meets that description. I personally find that Extremes and Savages are better dealt with when a group comes together collectively acknowledging how they want to engage with the content which you fundamentally cannot do with a que. In a que you can get people that just want the clear so unsync is fine with them if they are informed, people who want a blind run, people who want to troll, people who want you to guide them, and people who came in watching a guide. You have no way for controlling for any of that in a que. Which is why I suggest to people resources to use for them to engage with the content the way they want and not go pissing people off by getting stuck with them.

To me an "examplar" is someone who helps people reach the content they want to do, but not necessarily do that content with them. I will gladly help people find guides, discords, statics, etc for doing harder content, but I don't want to actually do that content.

I've also seen suggestions that the mentor roulette is nothing more than "fill this missing spot with an experienced warm body" and quite frankly I think that is exactly what the mentor roulette should be. Just call it "Fill Roulette" or something similar and not attach this status to it. We don't NEED the status of mentor in this game and if we want to keep it then we need other systems to support it. Some have suggested modifying the commendation system or putting in monthly requirements. Others think that mentors need to be punished into falling in line with whatever the role is supposed to be. The only thing people can agree on is that it sucks.

Additionally there's the "rewards" such as the mount and the crown. These rewards really shouldn't leave the game but putting them under a separate, perhaps similar system is where they should go. Heck if we have little symbols next to our names then why not make that a wholly separate thing in itself with the crown simply being a member of that system? Some people want status symbols in the game to lord over others and some want the existence of bragging to be taken away. Those two ideas cannot agree.

TLDR: SE made a bad system and we should collectively try to get them to make a better one and all suffer forever because they likely never will.

[SturmChurro]

...

I think it's pretty black and white actually. A player who queues for a roulette and then immediately DCs to avoid any in-game punishment is NOT an "exemplar of player etiquette", and no, I do not think they are required to do it if they don't want to. This is what the leave button is for, or they can just not queue for mentor roulette entirely.

The mentor roulette is more than just "fill this missing spot", in my opinion. The mentor crown is turned on specifically, which tells me that any new player seeing this icon (in a perfect world) would see this mentor as someone who they can ask assistance of, which is also why mentors get extra exp (if I recall) for being grouped with new adventurers. Players can thank the prevalence of "mentors" who aren't acting as one, for the way the community sees them nowadays.

[Xirean]

I think it's pretty black and white actually. A player who queues for a roulette and then immediately DCs to avoid any in-game punishment is NOT an "exemplar of player etiquette", and no, I do not think they are required to do it if they don't want to. This is what the leave button is for, or they can just not queue for mentor roulette entirely.

The mentor roulette is more than just "fill this missing spot", in my opinion. The mentor crown is turned on specifically, which tells me that any new player seeing this icon (in a perfect world) would see this mentor as someone who they can ask assistance of, which is also why mentors get extra exp (if I recall) for being grouped with new adventurers. Players can thank the prevalence of "mentors" who aren't acting as one, for the way the community sees them nowadays.

I don't think someone purposefully DCing is an Examplar either. But they play the game and pay a sub like anyone else so their opinion is just as valid. I don't think them doing what some consider rude to change that. A lot of people don't want there to be a penalty for leaving in any game. I've felt like I'm being held captive in an instance on more than one occasion in this game and others. Yes there is the leave button, but why should someone be penalized for trying to get away from what they perceive to be a toxic situation? The system has no way for detecting this which is another flaw within it. I don't think trying to get around that makes someone a bad person. Since getting rid of the penalty is probably not the best idea I prefer changing up the content selection in roulettes. "Oh people leave this a lot? Maybe we should remove this instance from this Roulette and put it somewhere else?"

Saying "just don't que" is the easy answer and one that does not satisfy me just like the "fill this missing spot" perspective does not satisfy you. Ultimately this comes down to which is more important the status/expectation or getting clears and not upsetting people? I lean towards the latter as I don't expect people to rise to the occasion; therefore I don't ask them to.

[Eien713]

All posts so far

I just wanted to say that I agree with everything you said. Also, people who keep bashing mentors, say that the mount should be removed, and/or suggest not queuing for the Mentor Roulette if you don't want to do extremes are pointless to argue with. I know this from experience since they've been saying the exact same thing in every single post about this matter and never once changed their views or listened no matter what arguments/logic/explanations/etc. people gave them.

You want the reward removed? Fine with me. I'd definitely run the Mentor Roulette a lot more if it didn't have Ex trials, and I'd certainly do that without the reward being involved. And if I want to help people with Ex trials, I'll hop into PF like I usually do.

[nebby00]

I think this thread has gone on way too long at this point. Every single point on both sides has been argued to hell and back again and this goes for everyone on both sides of the argument: you cannot change the minds of someone who feels strongly about something, especially when it comes down to morals and interactions with other players

No one, and I repeat: no one had been bashing/harassing any specific mentor who by all means have been doing the best they can. The only complaints was on the bad mentors who unfortunately pop up and are more vocal. Yes, it may not be fair that all mentors get pushed into one box, but until the system gets improved or removed, this will continue to be a problem. We can argue all day and night about it, but in the end nothing will change until the developers themselves intervene.

Lay it to rest, 8 pages is way too long for this discussion and it's going nowhere fast.