It's time to kill the argument that DPS abilities keep healers from healing.

[Absurdity]

The last time I checked logs Holy Paladin isn't doing a fair amount of damage though. They were doing approximate <1/5 of DPS's damage? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

It fluctuates heavily from expansion to expansion, probably because Blizzard doesn't know where they want healer dps to be either. Holy Paladin was meta for M+ back in BFA, no idea where it falls now since they removed their Glimmer of Light healing.
A really good Discipline Priest could actually top the dps back in Mists of Pandaria while also pumping out a ridiculous amount of healing, that is what I mean with "Blizzard doesn't know either".

[Sebazy]

Blame elitist stuff like parsing/the balance etc for making it that if your dps isn’t really high as a healer you are trash mentality

Oh no you don't

You can blame the various savage turns that either flat out required healer DPS to clear or at least strongly encouraged it to skip key mechanics and phases.

Then like so many other things this mentality was taken and applied to content in which it frankly didn't matter.

[Videra]

SCH in 2.0 ARR had significantly more DPS spells/abilities than it currently has in Shadowbringers.

SCH at start of 2.0 ARR
- Ruin, Ruin II for nukes.
- Energy Drain for MP and nuke.
- Bio, Bio II, Miasma, Miasma II, Aero, and Thunder for DoTs.
- Bane and Blizzard II for AoE.
- 100 percent uptime for Shadowflare.
- Strong Fairy potency.

SCH at start of 5.0 Shadowbringers
- Broil, Biolysis, Art of War
- No Energy Drain
- Nerfed Fairy potency.

There is a reason why healers say SCH has been completely gutted and shell of itself. The dev team are extremely incompetent.

>100% uptime Shadowflare re-enters my memory

Why are we still here? Just to suffer?

[Aiscence]

Hmm I never knew this. I just figured learning that stuff was some diamond + type league jazz and I have no intention of ever climbing pass diamond and putting in that effort sooooo…you can still clear as a reactionary healer but I guess I could learn my heal amounts somehow. Do dummies work for it?

Also I always assumed that unless the person is lower hp your heal would be less. So you could only learn if you got someone low first.

Na it's not diamond level stuff, healing is more about "being calm", If I need to move i'll just move to get out of the aoe then go back to casting, it works well because I'm lazy and I don't really want to move too much XD. Don't be afraid to "cancel" a cast, i'm spamming my dps spell and if I see an aoe/whatever damage coming, I'll just cancel or just wait for my cast to finish then do the heal. I can solo heal most duties up to extreme with that, but the condition is to know what your kit is doing. In savage even without having healed in shb, I could reach 6k dps as a scholar with crafted gear while still healing well on e8s with doing that. And it was way more than enough to kill the fight if you dont go for a week 1 or 2 kill. Savage looks way scarier than it actually is when you get used to it, as I said at the beginning: being a healer is about being cool headed.

As some people said, you can heal yourself in a town, see how much it does on you, and you know what it ll do in a dungeon, even if you have no idea, when the duty begin, just pop a cure2, and you compare with the tank hp, no one remember their healing for each dungeons. The confusion with the lower the hp, the highest the heal is only for essential dignity from Ast, other than this one, you can heal yourself while full hp in your house and it's the same as being low hp!

if my cure 2 (700 potency) does 28 000 heal, then I know medica/rapture(it's the same skill, just no mana) will do half of that +-. Then you have to learn once (as any roles having one of them) that a regen/dot ticks every 3 seconds and you get how much your regen skills do (approximative):
Medica 2 is an aoe cure2 (200 + 500 from the regen)
Asylum is 800 + 80 potency from the asylum effect.
And you can see, everything is more or less at the level of a cure 1 or at the level of a cure 2. Ast and scholar have basically the same potencies, just with twist like cards or aetherflow, your learn it once in a few minutes like I just explained and you know them all, that's why people are often saying "they are all the same"".

The high level diamond league things are more people planning everything to the exact heal in advance, never cancel because of it and you need to have a co heal you know well for it, it's mostly for ultimates or very high logs which I cba, so dw about that, I dont find it fun either.

[Saefinn]

Yes OP!

If anything the current situation makes it more likely for healers to not heal. Why? Because it's so easy to tunnel vision when you're in long periods of monotony. I've heard it a few times in ShB "oops, I forgot I was a healer for a second there" and I've done it.

And people complain about "healers who don't heal" more than ever.

I feel like we do need to end this myth too that its DPS abilities that are to blame.


Ultimately the changes I'd like to see is:
- Improved downtime variety (most likely in the form of DPS because that's the simplest solution without raising the skill floor)
- Reduced downtime on new content


Unfortunately the complaint is unavoidable without a massive overhaul of the game's design. Why? Because of how the game and its encounters are designed. It is designed to value rDPS the most. Everything else is just there to facilitate that. There is nothing in the game's mechanics that would benefit from other priorities. How enemies are defeated boils more down to mechanics that any specific way jobs can interact with the foe beyond dealing damage. And then you have enrage timers and DPS checks that require people to maximise DPS.

So there is going to be a mentality that: all roles should DPS. And that those trying to be the best at their role with have to try to maximise their DPS. And because encounters are scripted? That gives a lot more room for healers to optimise their healing to a point where making mistakes can result in death and damage income is infrequent enough to let your DPS classes in the party sit at low health for longer.

I feel like we should just accept this is the reality of this type of game and that regardless of how they design healers this is going to be an issue and we can at least make healers more interesting.

[Mortex]

Oh no you don't

You can blame the various savage turns that either flat out required healer DPS to clear or at least strongly encouraged it to skip key mechanics and phases.

Then like so many other things this mentality was taken and applied to content in which it frankly didn't matter.

It’s funny how casual elitism makes these become a actually thing. When actually bad player tell you too play the “best” composition you know it’s bad. It’s pretty ironic. Like you never ever need Heal dps in 99 % ( but if you don’t do dmg you actually could actually go semi afk be a there isn’t anything happening) of the content anyway and the very specific 1 % only if you actually got for week 1 and ultimates before that point I’m pretty sure you can clear fights as healer just by using medica 2.

[Ursa_Vonfiebryd]

Wow. This feels like the SMN thread I just left. I don't think jobs are being simplified or streamlined because the devs think we are stupid. FFXIV is pretty unique in that one character can learn any job in the game. In a lot of other MMO, you're stuck at one job and you have to make a totally new character if you want to learn another. I myself am almost omni with DoW/DoM jobs and I can honestly say I can only play about 4/5 of them in a way that doesn't make me feel like I'm being carried. Do I have a basic grasp of the other jobs? Certainly. But inspect anyone and you'll usually see multiple jobs on that list. For those who have mastered (truly mastered) them all, kudos. But the reality is, a lot of people pick up multiple jobs but really only master one or two and I think this simplification is a way to make using multiple jobs easier across the board. That's the trend I'm noticing here, anyway.

I wish healers had a little more individuality but since all we care about is damage, I don't see that happening really. It amazes me when I see people talking about how boring or easy things have gotten but also complain about how bad the playerbase is. Trying healing in a trash pug group. Duty Finder after 9 pm basically becomes Pug Savage Finder. XD

[ToodlesElNoodles]

It fluctuates heavily from expansion to expansion, probably because Blizzard doesn't know where they want healer dps to be either. Holy Paladin was meta for M+ back in BFA, no idea where it falls now since they removed their Glimmer of Light healing.

Huh? Glimmer of Light still exists. It’s a talent instead.

And in WoW, the healer DPS was problematic because people would be turned down if you were the wrong class. Something Yoshi-P is very focused on preventing. Homogenization sucks, but it really helps to attain that balance.

I think the only two ways is either to change encounter designs or change healer to a support philosophy.

I’m not big on giving healers more complex DPS. I’m also not a big fan of making healing more stressful. And certain heal mechanics that other MMOs use would become unbalanced because of WHM Benediction.

I am a big fan of increasing the utility methods of healers so that they can contribute to the team without stepping too far on the DPS territory. Though arguably, adding a “utility rotation, why not just add a DPS rotation?

In a balanced world: playstyle preference.

[BooPoo]

Huh? Glimmer of Light still exists. It’s a talent instead.

And in WoW, the healer DPS was problematic because people would be turned down if you were the wrong class. Something Yoshi-P is very focused on preventing. Homogenization sucks, but it really helps to attain that balance.

I think the only two ways is either to change encounter designs or change healer to a support philosophy.

I’m not big on giving healers more complex DPS. I’m also not a big fan of making healing more stressful. And certain heal mechanics that other MMOs use would become unbalanced because of WHM Benediction.

I am a big fan of increasing the utility methods of healers so that they can contribute to the team without stepping too far on the DPS territory. Though arguably, adding a “utility rotation, why not just add a DPS rotation?

In a balanced world: playstyle preference.

Playstyle should vary. There should be healers that bring more pDPS (Sage?), healers that bring more rDPS(AST etc.) and healers with more utilities which translates to DPS. We shouldn't tunnel vision into only one variation.

[AFuzzyMu11in]

Playstyle should vary. There should be healers that bring more pDPS (Sage?), healers that bring more rDPS(AST etc.) and healers with more utilities which translates to DPS. We shouldn't tunnel vision into only one variation.

There will always be one style that is meta it never works.