PVP REWARDS SUGGESTION (FEAST)

[Alexandre_Noireau]

I just wish this community had a shred of respect for competitive content.

The competition of having more free time than others to throw matches at the duty finder. What a display of skill, not having to work, study or responsabilities.

[Ixon]

The competition of having more free time than others to throw matches at the duty finder. What a display of skill, not having to work, study or responsabilities.

There are, both currently and historically, people with over 1000 matches in a single season and still are not on the top 100 board. Then there is the opposite, people who are able to secure a position in top 100 in less than 200 matches. One player even climbed to diamond in a single day from unranked this season. This in itself shows how much of an impact skill can have in determining your place on the leaderboard.

"The competition of having more free time than others to throw matches at the duty finder." - How do you think good players get good? Did you think they were born with it? Or do you think they have cataloged thousands of hours of games of experience to get that way? Of course the people who spend the most time in a particular ANYTHING are bound to be innately better than those just starting out, that's how anything works. Yet people make top 100 on their first season all the time, it takes more dedication and effort due to the lack of experience, but it happens.

In the end it's a COMPETITIVE mode, competitive. Probably one of the only real competitive aspects of FFXIV(took me like, 4 hours to get into the top 100 of Ishgard restoration lol).Meaning that people win, and people lose. You make the board? You win. You miss the board? You lose, better luck next time champ. Your participation trophy is the wolf collars you get and the reminder when you see an armor/mount that you didn't get.

[Alexandre_Noireau]

You make the board? You win. You miss the board? You lose, better luck next time champ. Your participation trophy is the wolf collars you get and the reminder when you see an armor/mount that you didn't get.

And this mindset and reward structure has proven to be extremely succesful:
Everyone enjoys PvP, speak highly of it, the competition is rampant and exciting, and we even have a massive streaming community and tournements organi...

Oh wait, PvP is a failure.
Wasted rewards on an uncessuful piece of side content. Releasing all those rewards open to the public would only save them of being linked to that piece of terrible content that only a small fraction of players "enjoy".

Precisely that it is a competitive mindset the one the Feast adresses to, in the worse possible way, is the greater mistake of The Feast. And it will be for the new PvP mode.
The reason why Frontlines stand as the only bearable and actually played PvP content is exactly that is not highly competitive, very rewarding and open to individual progression pacing rather to be forced into timegates. Sadly the Garo event is not in place anymore but it should totally make a return.

The ishgardian restoration is another show of how bad competitive systems actually are, only a handful cared, the content was designed to die, now is just an empty side actitivity that levels you up.
I love how they try to defend competitive game modes in a game which is basically the anti-thesis both in design and community to the normal regular highly competitive mindset of other titles. And it shows, or more exactly: It doesn't - No one cares about PvP or the Restoration and they became dead wasted content.

Nicely done.

[Tachion]

It's ok to have niche content that only a subset of players engage in. There are many such systems in FFXIV, competitive pvp being just one of them.

[ForteNightshade]

It's ok to have niche content that only a subset of players engage in. There are many such systems in FFXIV, competitive pvp being just one of them.

Except Feast is literally the only piece of niche content where it gets both exclusive and timed exclusive rewards. No other content in the entirety of FFXIV has such a privilege. Which is especially ironic considering PvP has largely been a failure its entire existence. These exclusive mounts aren't so much a reward but a desperate plea from the dev team for players to actually try Feast. And it failed so badly, they're abandoning Feast for an undisclosed about of time.

People wouldn't take such umbrage over the exclusivity if that same reward structure were used elsewhere. But it isn't. Why does PvP get to be "special" but Ultimate, Savage, DRS, Bozja, BA, Eureka and so forth all inevitably have its rewards become easier to get over time? Once again, it's pure bias from the dev team; fearing if they let PvP mounts become obtainable elsewhere within PvP, they'll lose what little PvP players they have left.

[Ixon]

Except Feast is literally the only piece of niche content where it gets both exclusive and timed exclusive rewards. No other content in the entirety of FFXIV has such a privilege. Which is especially ironic considering PvP has largely been a failure its entire existence. These exclusive mounts aren't so much a reward but a desperate plea from the dev team for players to actually try Feast. And it failed so badly, they're abandoning Feast for an undisclosed about of time.

People wouldn't take such umbrage over the exclusivity if that same reward structure were used elsewhere. But it isn't. Why does PvP get to be "special" but Ultimate, Savage, DRS, Bozja, BA, Eureka and so forth all inevitably have its rewards become easier to get over time? Once again, it's pure bias from the dev team; fearing if they let PvP mounts become obtainable elsewhere within PvP, they'll lose what little PvP players they have left.

What? It's a reward for winning a competitive mode, it's literally been there from the very first season. If there was no reward and they added rewards later I might believe you, but timed rewards per season have been there since the first season of Feast. Privelege? It's a competition. What is a competition without exclusive rewards for the winners? It's not used anywhere else because people like you get all bent over competition of any kind, so they put it in only ONE game mode where it made the most sense, and people STILL get bent out of shape. It's PVP for gods sake lol, someone wins, someone loses, and the winner get's a trophy. Not sure why that is such a drastic concept to grasp.

[Ixon]

And this mindset and reward structure has proven to be extremely succesful:
Everyone enjoys PvP, speak highly of it, the competition is rampant and exciting, and we even have a massive streaming community and tournements organi...

Oh wait, PvP is a failure.
Wasted rewards on an uncessuful piece of side content. Releasing all those rewards open to the public would only save them of being linked to that piece of terrible content that only a small fraction of players "enjoy".

Precisely that it is a competitive mindset the one the Feast adresses to, in the worse possible way, is the greater mistake of The Feast. And it will be for the new PvP mode.
The reason why Frontlines stand as the only bearable and actually played PvP content is exactly that is not highly competitive, very rewarding and open to individual progression pacing rather to be forced into timegates. Sadly the Garo event is not in place anymore but it should totally make a return.

The ishgardian restoration is another show of how bad competitive systems actually are, only a handful cared, the content was designed to die, now is just an empty side actitivity that levels you up.
I love how they try to defend competitive game modes in a game which is basically the anti-thesis both in design and community to the normal regular highly competitive mindset of other titles. And it shows, or more exactly: It doesn't - No one cares about PvP or the Restoration and they became dead wasted content.

Nicely done.

No one likes every piece of content in this game. That's the beauty of it. I actually really enjoy the PVP in this game, as do others, just like every other niche game aspect: Mahjong, Solo PotD, LoV, TTT, Chocobo Racing, BLU Mage, Ultimates, House decorating, Crafting, Gathering, etc, etc. This game does decently well at catering to the majority of players interests, while also showing attention to the smaller interests as well. If YOU hate PVP, don't play it. If YOU like PVP and want the rewards, play it. You wont see me making threads about how unfair it is to have to do BLU raids for the Morbol mount. It's simple, do the content you want to do for the rewards you want.

You're right though, competitiveness is not for everyone, but it's also not meant for everyone. Some people actually like competition and heaven forbid the dev team makes content for a minority part of their community to sate their particular interests. You can say PVP is a failure, but the devs apparently don't, and there is enough of a player base to support PVP and competitiveness in this game that we have had 20 Feast Seasons, 4 Fronlines maps, 2 Rival Wings Maps, and a NEW PVP mode coming soon to Endwalker.

Oh, and the rewards aren't a waste, I wear mine everyday.

[Alexandre_Noireau]

It's ok to have niche content that only a subset of players engage in. There are many such systems in FFXIV, competitive pvp being just one of them.

With all of them being replayable and their rewards open to adquisition.
Is ok to have PvP, is bad to attach one time exclusive rewards to a reward system that doesn't encourage but discourages competition. And are unatainbable by the playerbase. Basically punishing anyone for "not showing up." That is called FOMO - Fear of missing out - One of the most hurtful and predatory design practices of the industry.

No one likes every piece of content in this game. That's the beauty of it. I actually really enjoy the PVP in this game, as do others, just like every other niche game aspect: Mahjong, Solo PotD, LoV, TTT, Chocobo Racing, BLU Mage, Ultimates, House decorating, Crafting, Gathering, etc, etc. This game does decently well at catering to the majority of players interests, while also showing attention to the smaller interests as well. If YOU hate PVP, don't play it. If YOU like PVP and want the rewards, play it. You wont see me making threads about how unfair it is to have to do BLU raids for the Morbol mount. It's simple, do the content you want to do for the rewards you want.

You can say PVP is a failure, but the devs apparently don't, and there is enough of a player base to support PVP and competitiveness in this game that we have had 20 Feast Seasons, 4 Fronlines maps, 2 Rival Wings Maps, and a NEW PVP mode coming soon to Endwalker.

Oh, and the rewards aren't a waste, I wear mine everyday.

With the diference that in all your examples the rewards are attainable by the players. While in PvP rewards become impossible to get - Making it the only part of the game where that happend.
If you want to compare PvP rewards with PvE rewards you truly don't understand what a reward structure is: For them to be the same Ultimates should only reward the first 100 players that beat it (first 80?) and Morbol Mounts should be locked only to the first 100 players that finish the Carnival or whatever you have to do, once that limit is reached those rewards should be removed from the game and never been attainable for no one else - Just then your examples would be precise.

20 Feast seasons mean nothing, is a piece of garbage as content, just thinking back in the day it had a trailer and the dev team intended it to be an e-sport is enough to make anyone laugh. And Rival Wings doesn't exist, what a waste of resources. The only relevant and proper form of PvP is Frontlines.

You haven't earned them though

In a truly competitive game mode, your rewards would be subject to decay or replacing - If you were to not qualify once again on the board you should have everything taken away from you - That would be worthy of praise and pride and an actual test of skill, as you would actually have to be constantly playing and facing an ever growing competition.
As it stands, the PvP rewards are a waste: you either traded, purchased, botted or wasted unhealthy amounts of time on it, the chances of the rewards being on legit skilled players is slim: not to mention several have then sold their accounts or just abandoned them, making all the effort of those "20 seasons" a waste.

I never said "PvP" was bad, i said highly competitive mindset and the reward structure of The Feast are unhealthy and bad, proof of it, the reception of the Feast through the years by the community: An unworthy piece of content memed to hell and back which sadly hides some of the better designed mounts and glamours.

[Ixon]

You haven't earned them though

In a truly competitive game mode, your rewards would be subject to decay or replacing - If you were to not qualify once again on the board you should have everything taken away from you - That would be worthy of praise and pride and an actual test of skill, as you would actually have to be constantly playing and facing an ever growing competition.
As it stands, the PvP rewards are a waste: you either traded, purchased, botted or wasted unhealthy amounts of time on it, the chances of the rewards being on legit skilled players is slim: not to mention several have then sold their accounts or just abandoned them, making all the effort of those "20 seasons" a waste.

I never said "PvP" was bad, i said highly competitive mindset and the reward structure of The Feast are unhealthy and bad, proof of it, the reception of the Feast through the years by the community: An unworthy piece of content memed to hell and back which sadly hides some of the better designed mounts and glamours.

"You haven't earned them though" - Not up to you decide what I did and did not earn. Though from my point of view, I have it, I earned it.
"In a truly competitive game mode, your rewards would be subject to decay or replacing " - No? Players earn unique rewards for being the best in a particular season in a lot of different games.
"If you were to not qualify once again on the board you should have everything taken away from you" - Again no? If I got a top500 spray in Overwatch for season 10, I don't lose it if I am not top 500 in season 11. If I win the superbowl in 2018, I don't lose my ring if I don't in 2019.
"That would be worthy of praise and pride and an actual test of skill, as you would actually have to be constantly playing and facing an ever growing competition." - That's not how competition works? It means you were the best in that given time period, not that you always have to be the best forever or we take away your shiny.
"wasted unhealthy amounts of time on it" - Wasted unhealthy amounts of time??? You do know this is an MMO forums right? The name of the game is wasting unhealthy amounts of time lmao. To your other points, I can't control the people who violate ToS, SE does. I report players all the time, and if nothing happens, that's on SE, I earned my place.
"An unworthy piece of content memed to hell and back which sadly hides some of the better designed mounts and glamours." - This can literally be said about any other piece of content anyone doesn't like.

Feast is by no means perfect, no one will argue you on that, but it has been enjoyable enough for those who do enjoy it to play it over the years despite the rewards(and there are some ugly ones too). People like yourself, who don't even play PVP to begin with, just get all bent out of shape when a cool thing drops that you don't care enough to get when it was relevant to do so.