SECOND Job Stones for base classes of ARR?

[DragoAskani]

See, do you know what i dont understand in many posts in this forum nowdays? "yoshi p. said" or: "they didnt do it for a reason".
1.0. was also "done for a reason" by the team. We gave feedback (including me - since i play since 1.0. Beta) and the game became better.

Also like changing the egis into the real avatar / summons, which was requested by me and others.
Which was excused way earlier on with arguments like: "blabla summoners cant summon the real summons because its against the lore - they are gods" Of course they dont summon the original summons, they are summoning just the copies / avatars of them.

So with your argumentation now... we would never see the summoner get rid of the egis and getting the real summons with Endwalker. I guess the feedback of the players was great so far (the trailer of job actions for summoner).



So now.. i personally would like the idea just to level a warrior and being able to switch from tank over to a dps job like Beastmaster (since we are missing also pet classes).
Because i dont know how much time you have to level classes up, but i like the idea to have shared exp bars like SMN/SCH have, so that i dont have to level up 8 other job classes.
We have a huge amount of content in this game which is still extemely growing, i think it would be a clever move.


So do you dislike the idea to have a beastmaster job on maurader or a ranger job on the archer class, then for what reason. Or is it just because "someone said"?
Thats no argument for me personally. And its pretty annoying to read it all over again on this forum here (the team said, Yoshi P. said)..
Yes he said also we wont get to summon garuda and titan. And here we are.

its just a suggestion and no critique, so pls chill fangirls / boys. I am pretty sure Yoshi. P and his team is fine with discussions like that..

My 2 Cents, and thank you.

What argumentation? I didn't say I agree'd or disagree'd so stop projecting and read what I said LITERALLY. I just pointed out that the comment that it was something they said when we had a 50/60 level cap is indeed false. I love how you are telling me to chill, while making up all these things in your head from my 4. FOUR. Basic sentences. Again stop projecting, and trying to make my comment out to be more then just correcting you on your statement.

[kaynide]

As i said in one post above you: "the devs" said is no argument. Whats your personal argument on that?

The devs said earlier on that we never get to summon Titan, Garuda or Ifrit with the summoner (lore wise) and here we go (after years of player feedback).
Please give your own opinion instead of this "but the devs said". I guess we are on a discussion board here? Otherwise it feels very "fangirlish" (comply with the devs opinion).

I agree with the devs; I would rather a completely new job with completely new weapons, not “Paladin, but he’s a healer now”.

It doesn’t serve the game- having a player spend less time in game, by way of leveling jobs, loses revenue if you level two jobs at once. It uses dev resources that should be used elsewhere.

It doesn’t serve the player well, as a player might level job X exclusively on dps, then be pressured to heal or tank which they have no experience and possibly interest in doing. It’s not useful in niche situations like open world or solo quests because any job can do the content, so you don’t need to switch to something else to get over some hurdle.

Regarding summoner, there is a difference in a very minor mechanic/visual effect and and entire system/merging of two separate jobs.

[SilverObi]

I have been hoping they'd make branching versions of classes (Archer -> Bard or Ranger, Marauder -> Warrior or Beastmaster, etc) through the use of traits or new abilities but yeah it really seems like the devs are adamant on not making new jobs grow from classes. And OP you might want to take a chill pill on the people who are saying "the devs said x", they're just stating the reason why we don't have the suggested idea right now and why we might not have it in the foreseeable future.

Yes the devs can change their minds and someday might do so regarding this idea, but right now it's a "no" on all available fronts. It's not fanboyism to say such, honestly. The person may not really have an opinion if its bad or good or feasible or whatever, they just know what the devs' stance is at this moment in time.

[SeverianLyonesse]

While I do like the idea of being able to level up two jobs at once, I don't see much use in re-introducing split jobs unless the devs are at the end of their design rope. If they reach a point where they just don't have any new good weapon concepts, then yeah reusing weapons would make a lot of sense.

What we need to do is make peace with the fact that if/when this happens, the alternative job fantasies will likely be extremely thin. I mean look at Scholar's entire existence compared to Summoner. So this idea would really just function as end-of-cycle fluff to entertain players with some variety.

At the moment, I do not see this being necessary. I think there may be just enough design space left for a hammer green mage tank, a blitzballer DPS, and possibly a whip class. I could also see the devs try to eek out a fourth caster somehow. So I think we are at least one more expansion away from reusing job assets, if that ever happens.

I do have to say that as far as OPs proposed job alternatives, only BST seems relevant, and wouldn't need axes or bows when it could have a whip. I don't think pet jobs are happening, and even if they were, the old dragoon class would probably be wrapped up into BST. And PUP seems to have been mostly appropriated to MCH, which I think is flavorfully just much better. In short, I don't really see these concepts as being a strong draw for revisiting dual classes.

[Tonkra]

I have been hoping they'd make branching versions of classes (Archer -> Bard or Ranger, Marauder -> Warrior or Beastmaster, etc) through the use of traits or new abilities but yeah it really seems like the devs are adamant on not making new jobs grow from classes. And OP you might want to take a chill pill on the people who are saying "the devs said x", they're just stating the reason why we don't have the suggested idea right now and why we might not have it in the foreseeable future.

Thanks for your input. But yes, its not helping to fill the whole thread with: "the devs said".
Besides its a "non-argument" for your own opinion on that topic.

Let's ignore the devs stance on this topic for a moment and let's ask the real question:
Why?
The only benefit from it is that you level two jobs at once. Aside from that, look at SMN and SCH. They share only one spell. So, what is the point not having two completely separate job instead?
Even their weapons are not shared (even though they share similar design).
So, adding a second job to each class is a bit pointless.

Thanks for your own personal opinion.

And first: the game has tons of hours and content to put in (and new upcoming full new jobs as well) and the content is growing extremely. Of course the most obvious positive benefit would be that these jobs would share the exp / level just like SCH/SMN.

So if you level up a beast master for example (dps / pet tamer class) and you normally arent into tanks that much you automatically would level up warrior, too (and maybe would enjoy highlevel WAR then, too who knows). So it also would increase the playerbase of multiple class roles, too on the other hand. I for example played my maurader until lv 14 or something? (and i play since 2011 ;D). Yes maybe i am weird, i play since 2011 and havent maxed out all, but i for a reason play here and then And slowly when coming back to the game i feel i cant keep up with the content or leveling up classes i would like to play. For me it wouldnt need complete new classes all the time, thats why i liked the idea to have the same base class / playstyle with a different twist to it. (which could be refreshing, too)

Secondly we miss out on different specs in this game, a second job would give the players the opportunity to switch over to a slightly or different play style of the same base class.
How often i hear that people wished to play a pure ranger class instead of becoming a bard - or Final Fantasy XI players (or pet class lovers) would like the idea to play a dragoon with a wyvern pet. A second job class would give us the opportunity to have a variety of the same base class without having skill trees / specs.

I mean if you play the same job with the same skill set over and over, wouldnt it be refreshing to switch over to a slightly different skill set at times?

[Kyuuen]

I'll say the same thing that I said in the other thread regarding this same talking point. Hard pass.

With 19 jobs about to be in the game adding in specs would essentially make it feel as though there were 38 jobs. As things stand as of right now the game is already starting to feel a bit same-y between jobs, doubling what we have will only exacerbate that feeling, on top of that all 38 specs would have to be balanced. Which then raises the question of said balancing towards the effects that might bring to the release schedule of Savage and Ultimate content.

Then comes the question of does each spec share the same values in secondary stating? If not, then hell no. Our armory and inventories are already a cluster **** as is.

The amount of reworking to balancing and systems just to make this an option honestly wouldn't be worth the pay-off imo.

[Menriq]

It's a very easy answer, and based on their responses on several other issues, has a common theme: Technical limitations on inventory space would make it a non starter. My guess, being a software developer, is that they would have to do some major refactoring and architecture changes before this could even become a conceptual reality.

[Tonkra]

With 19 jobs about to be in the game adding in specs would essentially make it feel as though there were 38 jobs.

Thats not what i wrote, you didnt understand the concept - read the title. I talked about the starting base classes of ARR. The new advanced jobs (not starting at lv 1) introduced dont have a base class and the opportunity to add an other job to it. (like arcanist > SMN/SCH)

Jobs like Dark Knight, Reaper, Astrologue etc. are advanced jobs which come without base classes and which dont start at lv 0.

And btw. a little offtopic : my first MMORPG "Dark Age of Camelot" (which Yoshi P. played too btw) included 21 races, 45 classes with 3 different spec lines - it had PVM and was focused on PVP.
So what you think is much actually isnt ^^ But as i said thats not what my suggestion was.

[Vahlnir]

I understand the push for job "specs". They are a neat concept on paper. However, they are a balancing nightmare. All one has to do is look at WoW to realize this. I would prefer that we don't go down this road, and instead just keep adding new jobs every expansion.

[Rowde]

It's also evidenced clearly in game through each expansion iteration that ACN/SMN/SCH don't play nice with each other anymore.

at base 5.0 launch they almost completely separated the SCH toolkit from ACN. The only action that SCH shares with the base class of ACN now is Resurrection. All other actions, even the ones that are technically shared between ACN/SMN/SCH were turned into SCH unique versions. This can all be reviewed in game atm, and on the current job guide on the Lodestone.

One thing I've been wanting forever is a complete separation of SCH from ACN/SMN... however... now it's even more muddled up when considering that SMN is losing DoTs in EW and is still keeping Resurrection. So it would perhaps make more sense for SMN to be separated from ACN/SCH toolkit going forward.

Lorewise however... I think ACN -> SMN feels like the logical graduation, whereas SCH always seemed (at least to me) like it's own separate thing. Starting NPC resides in the Marauder's Guild for example.