SECOND Job Stones for base classes of ARR?

[Garnix]

If they ever scrap the class system I would love for the classes to be converted to proper jobs. As for skills they can use the huge arsenal of scrapped skills and changed gamestyles.

For example:
1.) Archer: Reintroduction of charged attacks that was introduced to BRD and MCH in 3.0
2.) Marauders: Reintroduce skills that have been scrapped since 2.0, make them them a dps offensive warrior (DPS)
3.) Arcanist: Give them SMN/SCH scrapped dots.
4.) Rogue: give them rogue/thief flavored skills.
5.) Conjurer: Give them the nature skills maybe convert to DPS.
6.) Gladiator: Give them scrapped paladin skills, maybe in the further make them into a DPS.
7.) Thumaturage: Give them one of BLM many low level play styles as it’s main, perhaps give them dark based skills only.
8.) Puglist: Tank with evasion gameplay, use scrapped skills.
9.) Lancer: Tank, perhaps a mounted tank at higher levels?

While some might be hard to give a alternate play style there is already plenty of scrapped concepts and abilities that can be used for the classes.

That honestly sounds like a much better idea than branching 2 jobs out of each class: separate things completely and keep the classes relevant.
(Except for the Pugilist tank. I don't think that would work with how tanking is designed in this game.)

[CaptainLagbeard]

1.) Archer: Reintroduction of charged attacks that was introduced to BRD and MCH in 3.0
2.) Marauders: Reintroduce skills that have been scrapped since 2.0, make them them a dps offensive warrior (DPS)
3.) Arcanist: Give them SMN/SCH scrapped dots.
4.) Rogue: give them rogue/thief flavored skills.
5.) Conjurer: Give them the nature skills maybe convert to DPS.
6.) Gladiator: Give them scrapped paladin skills, maybe in the further make them into a DPS.
7.) Thumaturage: Give them one of BLM many low level play styles as it’s main, perhaps give them dark based skills only.
8.) Puglist: Tank with evasion gameplay, use scrapped skills.
9.) Lancer: Tank, perhaps a mounted tank at higher levels?

Ok, here's the thing, for the base classes, you mostly just have the skills from 1-30, and then 2-3 more after that. Most of the skills are actually from the Job and not the base class, so for the thought of making a new Job using them as a base, you gotta ignore their Job skills.

1. I would rather they make a whole new class if they want to have a Ranged Physical caster. Cannoneer exists in FF Tactics A2, and kind of in two forms, and if such a class were to exist in XIV it would make sense to have cast times on it...

2. Yea, such great scrapped abilities on the Marauder... Like Fracture... Well there was also their old Enmity combo that's kind of been made obsolete... There is also the old WAR ability Deliverance, but that's not really enough to build a whole unique class...

5. Really the only salvageable abilities for a DPS class from Conjurer would be Stone and Aero, at which point might as well make a whole new class.

6. Gladiator I mentioned earlier in this very thread, only really the weaponskills could be used. Maybe Shield Lob with some changes and Fight or Flight after a nerf to increase cooldown, reduce duration and reduce damage increase...

7. Thaumaturge, it's pretty heavily build around Fire and Blizzard... And BLM mostly builds upon it... There's very little room to move into any alternate directions without entirely abandoning the Thaumaturge roots, and at that point theres no point in keeping it linked to it.

8. An Evasion based Tank sounds like a terrible idea... The main one I've heard that's really worked well was FF 11's Ninja, and mostly because it can spam abilities to dodge literally every attack thrown at it by bosses. Aside from giving it a low cooldown Perfect Dodge from past Rogue/Ninja skills, it'd mostly be RNG to survive.

9. Lancer to a tank is possibly the most viable of the ideas listed... Give them a tank stance, removes positional requirement from Chaos Thrust, maybe adjust Potencies from Weaponskills to be in-line with other tanks... Dunno about mounts though...

[ItMe]

Yo, did someone say

1. I would rather they make a whole new class if they want to have a Ranged Physical caster. Cannoneer exists in FF Tactics A2, and kind of in two forms, and if such a class were to exist in XIV it would make sense to have cast times on it...

Cannoneer babyyyyyy!
Always gotta support a shoutout to Cannoneer as a potential job~

Don't forget, it's also in FFV.

8. An Evasion based Tank sounds like a terrible idea... The main one I've heard that's really worked well was FF 11's Ninja, and mostly because it can spam abilities to dodge literally every attack thrown at it by bosses. Aside from giving it a low cooldown Perfect Dodge from past Rogue/Ninja skills, it'd mostly be RNG to survive.

Yeah, evasion tanks really only exist in games with "builds," and I don't think there is room for them in FF14.
The Ninja in FF11 was unable to tank all content (mainly single enemies with fewer, harder hitting abilities it can focus on dodging), but in FF14 it would be expected to tank anything and everything.

[RitsukoSonoda]

Yo, did someone say

Cannoneer babyyyyyy!
Always gotta support a shoutout to Cannoneer as a potential job~

Don't forget, it's also in FFV.





Yeah, evasion tanks really only exist in games with "builds," and I don't think there is room for them in FF14.
The Ninja in FF11 was unable to tank all content (mainly single enemies with fewer, harder hitting abilities it can focus on dodging), but in FF14 it would be expected to tank anything and everything.

Utsusemi by itself isnt enough to make a tank in FFXI. The other things NIN had going for it was being able to sub WAR to get additional aggro tools and also that NIN had an A or A+ rating in evasion and parry to help make those shadows (3 from ichi, 5 from ni) last longer. Though SE actually designed the job to be a DPS and players turned it into a tank. They'd actually intended SAM on that game to be a tank or tank hybrid originally and players made it a DPS.

Overall though evasion tanks can be extremely hard to balance properly in a game which is why generally when they appear they're either too weak because the amount of attacks they avoid doesn't make up for lack of mitigation or HP, or they're OP because they're avoiding damage too much. In the case of FFXI the biggest annoyance for blink tanking were enemies that spammed AoE abilities as this would usually eat all shadows when they went off. RDM/NIN was probably the most broken combo for blink tanking in that game however it lacked aggro tools for party content.

[WhiteArchmage]

Yo, did someone say

Cannoneer babyyyyyy!
Always gotta support a shoutout to Cannoneer as a potential job~

Don't forget, it's also in FFV.

I actually thought Cannoneer would make a good interpretation of Chemist (fused with Flintlock): load up your hand-cannon with potion shells or buff shells and release them as a mist (by planting the hand-cannnon on the ground for AoE, shooting it at the target's feet for ST). Considering Yoshi mentioned they scrapped Chemist for not knowing how to conceptually make it work as a healer, it'd make some sense that way. Add some Mudra-like "Mix" command for buffs and you got yourself an AST with a cannon.

[Momo_Kozuki]

While I don't like more job stones, I fancy achievements for an advanced job title. Like, since lv71+, your characters no longer need guidance (hence lacking of job quests and lv80 one only helps to wrap up pre-ShB threads) and master their jobs on their own. So I think they reach lv90 of a class, they can access a new title, similar to how FF1's class upgrade work, for example: White/Black/Red Mage = White/Black/Red Wizard, though I prefer something more fancy.


Keep in mind this is just title for fun, and FF14 is good at making things fun. I'm just curious about SE's creativity.

[Flipityflu]

The first death knell for any game is adding way to many classes, which is exactly what this is...adding way too many classes.

[Cabalabob]

Bottom line is, the only reason to do this would be to level a second job for free. In my eyes that is not a positive thing. Think about it, you can level an arcanist/summoner 1-80 and suddenly you have a level 80 healer that you’ve never played.

It’s not a good thing to skip the levelling process or you deny yourself that time to learn the job. Even with jobs added in the expansions where they just start at level 30+ there’s a huge info dump. DRK even throws you straight into an instance before you’ve even had a chance to setup your hotbars. Even then these jobs give at LEAST 10 levels for you to figure stuff out.

While I understand why they didn’t start all the new jobs at level 1, personally I wouldn’t want to see more jobs getting a free pass to max level, even with the jobs that start at later levels I’ll usually take them on a few palace of the dead runs so I can understand their flow better and I’d rather see SMN and SCH split their levelling process than have more jobs get shared exp.

[OranKells]

While I understand the ask and I think it would be cool, classes with multiple job stones have shown to be incredibly difficult to balance. That's why summoner and scholar have only grown further and further apart with each expansion.

Sharing skills, stats, gear that could be used by a base class with two jobs have different roles proved to be unviable by endgame without leaving at least one of them at a handicap. Either scholars skills are too strong for a healer or summoners are too weak for a dps or some combination there of.

The other option of having 2 jobs with the same role, will run into issues where one job eeks out a bit more dps, even slightly. Assuming they share the same general gear but maybe needs different materia melds, would force people to specialize. This would force a lot of people to play the "good job". This is basically the problem WoW has where several specs are considered not part of the meta and are frowned upon in endgame activities. Nevermind you'd be using half the same skills to do the exact same thing, if they're too similar there's no point, but if they're too different it might need to be its own class.

Tl;DR They tried it. It didn't work. Doubt this will ever be revisited. The devs said no