About Endwalkers AST changes

[Acece]

Totally. You can clearly feel that SE put most of their healer job design resources into SGE, a bit into AST, and basically left some crumbs for WHM and SCH.
That said, i've always been fine with WHM being the "dumb" healer class. I think every game needs one, or else people won't be willing to try out healer as the responsibilities can be a bit overwhelming when you're not familiar with the job. Granted WHM didn't need to be that dumbed down, but ...

(SCH on the other hand ... RIP)

Isn't whm being a baby healer what got sch to be dumb down to begin because they didn't know how balance it. It also continues to affect it because they need a "baby healer" for each pure/shield healer role.

[Kraniel]

Isn't whm being a baby healer what got sch to be dumb down to begin because they didn't know how balance it. It also continues to affect it because they need a "baby healer" for each pure/shield healer role.

Well yeah but the problem is not having an accessible healer class in the game ... The problem is SE not knowing how to balance their jobs in the first place.

WHM is perfect as an "entry" job for someone who's never played healer before. They get to experience the essential traits of the role with minimum stress. The problem is that for people who feel more confident and wish to switch to a job that rewards them for playing better, the options are not here.

I mean, sure, i have cards and Divination when i play AST ... but that's about the difference. SE is trying to make absolutely all the classes accessible to new players, so there's really nothing we can do about that.

[Gemina]

Isn't whm being a baby healer what got sch to be dumb down to begin because they didn't know how balance it. It also continues to affect it because they need a "baby healer" for each pure/shield healer role.

Nah. When SCH and WHM were the only two healers, they complemented each other quite well and established the Barrier/Pure healer dynamic before these terms were even given to them. What disturbed the balance was when AST came in. It was poorly implemented, and since no one was playing it, they over tuned it. Like REALLY over tuned it. SCH/AST became a forced comp and WHM had a popular meme known as "whymage?"

What happened to SCH was a continuous and needless butchering of its toolkit. Kind of like taking away a fuel resource without providing a proper replacement. It started with SB, which wasn't as bad as what happened to SCH in ShB. I mean they even took away Energy Drain. We only have it now because they had to give it back; which they did and made the potency worthless. A small win for SCH. If you consider taking over enemy territory only to see they've retreated and burned everything to ash; and losing over half your men a win.

Healer balance was, "ummm... what the eff do we do with AST???" That's it my friend. Funny thing is that after all the adjustments, things really aren't that much different. SCH/AST is still pretty much the preferred comp. Chain, Neutral sect, DMG boosts, mitigation, auto regen, etc. etc. etc. But when WHM comes along now and says, "Can I play?" there is kind of a parent there that stops them from booting them off the playground.

Haha! I joke. I joke.... kinda.

[Duskane]

Isn't whm being a baby healer what got sch to be dumb down to begin because they didn't know how balance it. It also continues to affect it because they need a "baby healer" for each pure/shield healer role.

i don't think its WHM fault at all since SCH has basically been the AFK healer for any content lower than lvl 41
healer getting dumbed down since Heavensward due to clunky mechanics like cleric stance and cross class skills
Dev team not liking healers doing insane AOE dps beating most actual DPS why aoe got gutted in ShB
and a lack of knowledge for healers
with there ideal healer design not matching up with encounter design.

[Mortex]

Looks like from the job trailer that the seal self buff enables the starshower ability we saw and maybe some other abilities. The problem I have is king and queen being terrible cards/options again. Like why would you need a ogcd aoe heal when astro has already enough and I don’t think king does enough dmg to warrant taking away a card for it. If it should be a separate ogcd you press too receive king or queen that would be ok but if not I don’t think it warrants taking the cards away from the dps.

[Mortex]

Looks like from the job trailer that the seal self buff enables the starshower ability we saw and maybe some other abilities. The problem I have is king and queen being terrible cards/options again. Like why would you need a ogcd aoe heal when astro has already enough and I don’t think king does enough dmg to warrant taking away a card for it. If it should be a separate ogcd you press too receive king or queen that would be ok but if not I don’t think it warrants taking the cards away from the dps.

I stand corrected looks like minor arcana is a ogcd that gives either king or queen as a card so it’s either meh dmg or meh healing nothing too fancy

[ty_taurus]

I stand corrected looks like minor arcana is a ogcd that gives either king or queen as a card so it’s either meh dmg or meh healing nothing too fancy

The lord returning to a form of OGCD damage is great if you ask me. The biggest issue with the Lord and the Lady in Stormblood was that the Lady felt useless in comparison. You would much prefer the DPS gained through the Lord, and because the Lady was random, you could never preplan to actually rely on it the way it was intended (and you also didn't want to sit on it or it would eat up your CD).

The Shadowbringers changes just made them feel incredibly bland. Mildly stronger versions of all the other cards? That's all they could come up with?

The return to form on the new Lord and Lady with some updates has potential to be a better mechanic now, especially since it no longer burns your regular cards.

Here are the outcomes I foresee regarding the new Lord and Lady:

1. They go back to being entirely random, which will really just bring us right back where we started. The AoE function is slightly nicer since you don't need to target, but we'll go right back to never wanting the Lady because we'll never need to plan for her.

2. They'll be determined by the last card you drew similar to how the Shadowbringers Lord and Lady function. In a way, it would make it much nicer for us to get the Lord every time, but on a design level, I'd argue that's possibly worse than them being random, because then everyone will basically just never draw the Lady.

3. The cards alternate between uses: Lord > Lady > Lord > Lady > Lord > etc... Which is, in my opinion, the best way to handle the change. First and foremost, it gives you consistency. Your damage gained from the Lord will not be randomized, and you can count on it with every other pull. Additionally, it means you actually can plan around using the Lady because you know when your Minor Arcanas will pull her.

[Acece]

Well yeah but the problem is not having an accessible healer class in the game ... The problem is SE not knowing how to balance their jobs in the first place.

WHM is perfect as an "entry" job for someone who's never played healer before. They get to experience the essential traits of the role with minimum stress. The problem is that for people who feel more confident and wish to switch to a job that rewards them for playing better, the options are not here.

I mean, sure, i have cards and Divination when i play AST ... but that's about the difference. SE is trying to make absolutely all the classes accessible to new players, so there's really nothing we can do about that.

I really should just give up on whm being anything but a baby healer I guess. because every one wants it to be.

[ASkellington]

I really should just give up on whm being anything but a baby healer I guess. because every one wants it to be.

I don't see how that's a major issue. Minor yes, but let me explain.

It isn't a major issue because there should be a low skill floor healer in the game. If X is too hard for you, you always have Y. WHM is perfect for that because of how many heals it offers to soften the blow.

Where its still an issue if not as big of one is that while its skill ceiling should not be as high as a more complex healer, it should have something for an experienced WHM to strive for. And WHM doesn't. To further add to this problem, it doesn't seem like we know what to give to WHM that other healers don't already have. I certainly don't. Not really. I'm all for WHM being the sole healer for having an actual dps rotation to either build into the blood lily or what have you, but I'm not a WHM main. I'm an AST main. I don't know what you guys need.

I sincerely do not know what to offer to WHM to keep its bar to entry low while also raising its ceiling to new heights.

[Kraniel]

I really should just give up on whm being anything but a baby healer I guess. because every one wants it to be.

I never said that i wanted it to be that way. I'm just explaining how i think it makes sense to have one class more accessible than others.

You ask me ? I don't care about the difficulty. I'm a healer main at heart and WHM is the first job i picked up when ARR came out. For all i care they could make it ridiculously hard to play and i'd be totally happy with that.

But i know i don't represent the community of FFXIV, and the market audience that SE is reaching for. I know that things aren't going to change in the way that i would like them to, so that's why i'd rather just try to understand the choices SE are making for their game.

If you want a game where every class is challenging to play, i'm afraid FFXIV is not where it's at. SE made it even clearer with the recent LL, where they openly announced that even though they were aware that many players wanted to go back to something similar to what we had in 3.0, they will instead keep building on top of what they changed for 5.0.
To me this makes it very clear that keeping the game as casual-friendly as possible is a big part of their vision.