About Endwalkers AST changes

[Acece]

Well yeah but the problem is not having an accessible healer class in the game ... The problem is SE not knowing how to balance their jobs in the first place.

WHM is perfect as an "entry" job for someone who's never played healer before. They get to experience the essential traits of the role with minimum stress. The problem is that for people who feel more confident and wish to switch to a job that rewards them for playing better, the options are not here.

I mean, sure, i have cards and Divination when i play AST ... but that's about the difference. SE is trying to make absolutely all the classes accessible to new players, so there's really nothing we can do about that.

I really should just give up on whm being anything but a baby healer I guess. because every one wants it to be.

[ASkellington]

I really should just give up on whm being anything but a baby healer I guess. because every one wants it to be.

I don't see how that's a major issue. Minor yes, but let me explain.

It isn't a major issue because there should be a low skill floor healer in the game. If X is too hard for you, you always have Y. WHM is perfect for that because of how many heals it offers to soften the blow.

Where its still an issue if not as big of one is that while its skill ceiling should not be as high as a more complex healer, it should have something for an experienced WHM to strive for. And WHM doesn't. To further add to this problem, it doesn't seem like we know what to give to WHM that other healers don't already have. I certainly don't. Not really. I'm all for WHM being the sole healer for having an actual dps rotation to either build into the blood lily or what have you, but I'm not a WHM main. I'm an AST main. I don't know what you guys need.

I sincerely do not know what to offer to WHM to keep its bar to entry low while also raising its ceiling to new heights.

[Kraniel]

I really should just give up on whm being anything but a baby healer I guess. because every one wants it to be.

I never said that i wanted it to be that way. I'm just explaining how i think it makes sense to have one class more accessible than others.

You ask me ? I don't care about the difficulty. I'm a healer main at heart and WHM is the first job i picked up when ARR came out. For all i care they could make it ridiculously hard to play and i'd be totally happy with that.

But i know i don't represent the community of FFXIV, and the market audience that SE is reaching for. I know that things aren't going to change in the way that i would like them to, so that's why i'd rather just try to understand the choices SE are making for their game.

If you want a game where every class is challenging to play, i'm afraid FFXIV is not where it's at. SE made it even clearer with the recent LL, where they openly announced that even though they were aware that many players wanted to go back to something similar to what we had in 3.0, they will instead keep building on top of what they changed for 5.0.
To me this makes it very clear that keeping the game as casual-friendly as possible is a big part of their vision.

[Mindiori]

But i know i don't represent the community of FFXIV.

A pity that it is instead, represented by those almost too thick to switch on the machine they play the game on. We speak of 'casual' but at one point, that was a common reference to people who didn't dedicate huge volumes of time to the grind. Not something that was synonymous with 'braindead'. Indeed that is the crowd that makes them money now. They aren't anyone who stays or contributes beyond entry and throw away spending - which I suppose aligns with Yoshi and the philosophy of expecting people to put the game down for large amounts of time.

Problem being that there exists a demographic, plenty competent with ''difficulty'' that wants to drop in for a challenge. Not something that can be completed by a drunken cripple. I came across a thread from 2019 a while back. Detailing thoughts on AST changes primarily. What a surprise that 90% of them hung up the game that very year. Never to return.

By all means make space for people. Of all ability levels. Yet what exactly are you aspiring to with your 'time wasting', as many are want to call gaming. Laughably in an era where streamers make millions. To boast of the handouts you got for nothing? That require no effort or ability incase someone got offended? Heh. Problem is it means nothing. Gaming was collectively fun on the level of cooperative achievement . Progressive challenge is wrapped into that.

Without it you have a senseless pursuit. One that for many becomes devoid of fun, the moment you realize that instead of equality - you have homogenized mediocrity. What a laughing stock job balance now is. More power to you for being open minded - but I'll always remember, rather than nostalgia alone; the days when difficulty was more fairly applied and end game wasn't a skip pot and the 1% of things that dont put you to sleep.

[Acece]

I never said that i wanted it to be that way. I'm just explaining how i think it makes sense to have one class more accessible than others.

You ask me ? I don't care about the difficulty. I'm a healer main at heart and WHM is the first job i picked up when ARR came out. For all i care they could make it ridiculously hard to play and i'd be totally happy with that.

But i know i don't represent the community of FFXIV, and the market audience that SE is reaching for. I know that things aren't going to change in the way that i would like them to, so that's why i'd rather just try to understand the choices SE are making for their game.

If you want a game where every class is challenging to play, i'm afraid FFXIV is not where it's at. SE made it even clearer with the recent LL, where they openly announced that even though they were aware that many players wanted to go back to something similar to what we had in 3.0, they will instead keep building on top of what they changed for 5.0.
To me this makes it very clear that keeping the game as casual-friendly as possible is a big part of their vision.

It wasn't specifically directed at you sorry, I'm just so sick and tired of people who don't even play whm shoehorning it into simple with no identity besides a cure 3. Saying it has to be so ast and sch can go run free from the shackles that is boring game design. It's as bad as the people wanting sch to stay broil mage because they like it that way, even though they don't play it at a level that matters.

[Kraniel]

A pity that it is instead, represented by those almost too thick to switch on the machine they play the game on. We speak of 'casual' but at one point, that was a common reference to people who didn't dedicate huge volumes of time to the grind. Not something that was synonymous with 'braindead'. Indeed that is the crowd that makes them money now. They aren't anyone who stays or contributes beyond entry and throw away spending - which I suppose aligns with Yoshi and the philosophy of expecting people to put the game down for large amounts of time.

Problem being that there exists a demographic, plenty competent with ''difficulty'' that wants to drop in for a challenge. Not something that can be completed by a drunken cripple. I came across a thread from 2019 a while back. Detailing thoughts on AST changes primarily. What a surprise that 90% of them hung up the game that very year. Never to return.

By all means make space for people. Of all ability levels. Yet what exactly are you aspiring to with your 'time wasting', as many are want to call gaming. Laughably in an era where streamers make millions. To boast of the handouts you got for nothing? That require no effort or ability incase someone got offended? Heh. Problem is it means nothing. Gaming was collectively fun on the level of cooperative achievement . Progressive challenge is wrapped into that.

Without it you have a senseless pursuit. One that for many becomes devoid of fun, the moment you realize that instead of equality - you have homogenized mediocrity. What a laughing stock job balance now is. More power to you for being open minded - but I'll always remember, rather than nostalgia alone; the days when difficulty was more fairly applied and end game wasn't a skip pot and the 1% of things that dont put you to sleep.

Eh, i don't know if it's me being open-minded or just having given up on my ideals for this game.
At this stage i don't think they'll ever change their formula, so i'd rather just tell myself that this is what i'm signing up for ; The best mediocre MMORPG experience currently on the market.
The only reason i'm playing FFXIV is because i genuinely think that there is currently nothing that beats it.
That said, while it's all a matter of taste i'm an old-school MMORPG boomer, so to me all the pleasure in MMOs originated from the bits that were also the most frustrating and unfair (unbalanced classes, chaotic PvP, ...).


"In my days", MMOs were simply not a genre that you could pick up lightly. You'd have to spend a ton of time to level-up, gear up, and perfect your knowledge of every class to know what their counters are, etc ... It's simple : casual players existed, but they had to be fine with not experiencing any of the endgame content and getting bullied in PvP. If you didn't want to put in the time, then you would usually play something else and that's it.
This is contrary to FFXIV's (and many other MMOs) philosophy so ... in the end i just accepted the fact that i'm a minority, and that when business decisions have to be made, minorities are usually ignored.

It wasn't specifically directed at you sorry, I'm just so sick and tired of people who don't even play whm shoehorning it into simple with no identity besides a cure 3. Saying it has to be so ast and sch can go run free from the shackles that is boring game design. It's as bad as the people wanting sch to stay broil mage because they like it that way, even though they don't play it at a level that matters.

No worries, you were not rude or anything and ultimately i agree with you. I think it's a shame that we have to casualize games this much to cater to larger audiences. Worst part being that games like Dark Souls, Hollow Knight, etc ... have proven that there is a big market for "difficult" games ... I'm just hoping someday i'll get to experience the old-school MMO thrill again.