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  1. #1
    Player
    Wiz33's Avatar
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    Sep 2021
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    Faith Togawa
    World
    Hyperion
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    Armorer Lv 80
    I know I'm very late to the party. What makes you guys think that Emet is dead at all? Think back to every thing that happened once you set foot on Amaurot (actually ever since Emet first showed up in ShB)). The only illogical conclusion is that Emet is dead. Everything that happened in Amaurot is just a test to see if you're truly worthy and he would have an exit strategy all planned out if you were. Emet was not staked with White Auracite when you hit him with the Aether axe. He has already destroyed the White Auracite and darkness have already returned when you hit him with the Aether axe. So technically, Ishikawa did not lie. Did she ever came out and said that Emet is truly dead and we'll not see/hear him again? If she did, then she lied as we already have.
    (0)
    Last edited by Wiz33; 09-23-2021 at 08:27 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Beddict's Avatar
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    Jun 2017
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    Gridania
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    274
    Character
    Titania Chevalier
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiz33 View Post
    I know I'm very late to the party. What makes you guys think that Emet is dead at all? Think back to every thing that happened once you set foot on Amaurot (actually ever since Emet first showed up in ShB)). The only illogical conclusion is that Emet is dead. Everything that happened in Amaurot is just a test to see if you're truly worthy and he would have an exit strategy all planned out if you were. Emet was not staked with White Auracite when you hit him with the Aether axe. He has already destroyed the White Auracite and darkness have already returned when you hit him with the Aether axe. So technically, Ishikawa did not lie. Did she ever came out and said that Emet is truly dead and we'll not see/hear him again? If she did, then she lied as we already have.
    He still got dunked by a gigantic Blade of Light. The whole point of the White Auracite is to trap the Ascian long enough to pierce them with the Blade of Light, breaking down the barriers of their soul so they can be drawn into the Lifestream where they die. With Nabriales, he tried to flee so we trapped him and then charged up a Blade of Light with Moenbryda's help to kill him. With Igeyorhm, she tried to flee so we trapped her and then used Nidhogg's Eye to form a Blade of Light and kill her. But with Emet-Selch, he wasn't trying to flee so we didn't need to actually trap him with White Auracite, and it was mainly used to slow him down while he tried to kill everyone. He may have broken the White Auracite, but that doesn't matter because we still pierced him with a concentrated Blade of Light made using the aether of the Light Wardens. That barrier around his soul is gone, and he fades away into the Lifestream.

    Further supporting the whole "Emet-Selch is dead" but is one of the Tales from the Shadow short stories. From the poem at the end of Ere Our Curtain Falls:

    Now my charms are all o'erthrown,
    And what strength I have's mine own,
    Which is most faint, as is my breath
    That quavers here at brink of death.
    'Twas e'er my fate to wager all
    For that which wrought my brothers' fall,
    And thus the aether beckons me
    To depths of black eternity,
    To dream of things long lost and gone,
    And futures which might yet be won─
    Though not by me, lest you mistake,
    For others wait, the stage to take,
    And while their worth is far from sure,
    I bid the falling curtain─pause.
    Let "encore" be my final word,
    Their epilogue to death preferred.
    He's pretty dead, he's falling into the Lifestream, and his final word, his "encore" was the snap during Seat of Sacrifice where he saved us.
    (3)

  3. #3
    Player
    Wiz33's Avatar
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    Sep 2021
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    Character
    Faith Togawa
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Armorer Lv 80
    Mis-directions. Think about this.

    Emet said that he will not lie to you (and technically he hasn't, he just omitted a few things) Emet said that he could have wiped out your entire party in The Dying Gasp without a blink right at the start. Why didn't he? Did you notice that the ring of arrows landed in a circle around Alisaie and Aiphinaud instead of on them and a perfect killing shot on Ryne only knock her out for a bit? If his intention is to take out your band of misfits. They would have all be dead at the beginning of The Dying Gasp, much less timed a perfect rescue at the end no worse for wear. it's because he believes that you are worthy but after waiting/carrying the burden for thousands and thousands of years. He has to be sure.

    Given that he created Vauthry, he would know what absorbing all that Aether will do to you more than anyone else. So everything that happened once you set foot upon Amarout is a setup to save your butt if you're indeed worthy. If Hythlodaeus's shade (create by Emet) can see Ardbert beside you and notice the color of your souls. Emet certainly can and did recognize that each of you carried a fragment of Azem's soul way before. My theory is that he believes that combining 2 souls (yours and Ardbert's) will allow you to control and channel all the excess Aether but he doesn't know if it can be done (after all, if he knows how to rejoin souls, they're won't have to work towards the rejoining). So he took a gamble that having 2 fragmented soul close to each other under great stress (not unlike a calamity) may make it happen. So all the trails in Amarout are so he can be sure that you will persevere through and to put you under so much stress that your 2 fragmented soul will join. Remember his last words before the final battle "Very Well, Let us proceed to your final judgement". Judgement for what? Judgement for if you're truly worthy!
    (0)
    Last edited by Wiz33; 09-23-2021 at 11:45 AM.

  4. #4
    Player
    Vyrerus's Avatar
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    May 2014
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    The Interdimensional Rift
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    3,606
    Character
    Vicious Zvahl
    World
    Excalibur
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    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiz33 View Post
    I know I'm very late to the party. What makes you guys think that Emet is dead at all?
    "I AM STIFLED BY THIS VESSEL OF FLESH!"

    In the fight in the Dying Gasp, Hades actually discards the body of Solus in favor of taking on the true form of his soul in order to fight us at his fullest. That is how he transforms into the giant clawed monster.

    You misunderstand the auracite chunk. Take note of what the Scions were doing. They were channeling their aether so that the auracite would trap and absorb as much of his soul as possible. This is a battle against Hades's very soul. The last chunk to break is the one that gets all of their efforts, becoming the spear that he has to hold back from piercing him. It didn't stake him down. It basically made a weakpoint in his soul, a chink in his armor, which is why our Axe of Light was able to penetrate him.

    As for the rest of Amaurot still being around... Akademia Anyder is a dungeon set there AFTER we've killed Hades. His illusion Amaurot was setup to persist after he was gone. The Dying Gasp takes place in the portion of Amaurot that sits in ruins above sea level. That was an active illusion he made, whereas the Amaurot beneath the sea was a passive one.

    We will no doubt see holorecordings of Emet-selch on the moon in the Mare Lamentorum crystal repository. We may even get an Echo vision of him in the past. His legacy, the one he wants us to remember, is going to still impact the story.
    (3)

  5. #5
    Player
    Wiz33's Avatar
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    Faith Togawa
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    Hyperion
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    Armorer Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyrerus View Post
    "I AM STIFLED BY THIS VESSEL OF FLESH!"

    In the fight in the Dying Gasp, Hades actually discards the body of Solus in favor of taking on the true form of his soul in order to fight us at his fullest. That is how he transforms into the giant clawed monster.

    You misunderstand the auracite chunk. Take note of what the Scions were doing. They were channeling their aether so that the auracite would trap and absorb as much of his soul as possible. This is a battle against Hades's very soul. The last chunk to break is the one that gets all of their efforts, becoming the spear that he has to hold back from piercing him. It didn't stake him down. It basically made a weakpoint in his soul, a chink in his armor, which is why our Axe of Light was able to penetrate him.

    As for the rest of Amaurot still being around... Akademia Anyder is a dungeon set there AFTER we've killed Hades. His illusion Amaurot was setup to persist after he was gone. The Dying Gasp takes place in the portion of Amaurot that sits in ruins above sea level. That was an active illusion he made, whereas the Amaurot beneath the sea was a passive one.

    We will no doubt see holorecordings of Emet-selch on the moon in the Mare Lamentorum crystal repository. We may even get an Echo vision of him in the past. His legacy, the one he wants us to remember, is going to still impact the story.
    Explain this part first. Emet said that he will not lie to you (and technically he never did, he just omitted a few things) Emet also said that he could have wiped out your entire party in The Dying Gasp without a blink right at the start. Why didn't he? Did you notice that the ring of arrows landed in a circle around Alisaie and Aiphinaud instead of on them (why even show the ring in the first place if there's no intention behind it) and a perfect killing shot on Ryne (which a lot of players actually believe it was) apparently only knock her out for a bit? If his intention is to take out your friends. They would have all be dead or seriously hurt at the beginning of The Dying Gasp, much less timed a perfect rescue at the end with no worse for wear.
    (1)
    Last edited by Wiz33; 09-25-2021 at 02:02 AM.

  6. #6
    Player
    Vyrerus's Avatar
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    May 2014
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    Vicious Zvahl
    World
    Excalibur
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    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiz33 View Post
    Explain this part first. Emet said that he will not lie to you (and technically he never did, he just omitted a few things)
    That's called, A Lie by Omission. It's still lying. Also, he didn't say that he wouldn't lie to us. He said that he'd done nothing but tell us the truth, and then he says, "But if I were to lie you would find it quite indistinguishable." Which basically him admitting to being an unreliable narrator.

    Did you notice that those "arrows" exploded? You should look up concussive force, sometime. They missed at first to inspire terror. It's a common villain tactic.

    As for why he didn't outright kill the Scions, again, to inspire terror and play with his food, so to speak. By the time he does get serious, we've fused with Ardbert, and the Exarch has summoned the other WoLs. Also, note that he'd just shrugged Thancred off, and didn't think he had time to really aim, hence why the blast only grazed Ryne. He hit Urianger and Y'shtola with the same blasts a few seconds earlier. The Scions are sturdier than you or he gives them credit for.

    Pride cometh before the fall.
    (4)

    (Signature portrait by Amaipetisu)

    "I thought that my invincible power would hold the world captive, leaving me in a freedom undisturbed. Thus night and day I worked at the chain with huge fires and cruel hard strokes. When at last the work was done and the links were complete and unbreakable, I found that it held me in its grip." - Rabindranath Tagore

  7. #7
    Player
    Veloran's Avatar
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    Dec 2019
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    665
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    Vane Weaver
    World
    Diabolos
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    Gladiator Lv 84
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyrerus View Post
    Did you notice that those "arrows" exploded? You should look up concussive force, sometime. They missed at first to inspire terror. It's a common villain tactic.
    You're correct in his tactic but wrong in his motivation. He one-shot the Scions but didn't kill them in order to drive WoL closer to the edge without just shoving him over, because his hope was for WoL to overcome against all odds. Ultimately Shadowbringer's ending was the outcome he most wanted to happen and the one he put the most active effort into achieving.
    (3)

  8. #8
    Player
    Vyrerus's Avatar
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    Vicious Zvahl
    World
    Excalibur
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    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Veloran View Post
    You're correct in his tactic but wrong in his motivation. He one-shot the Scions but didn't kill them in order to drive WoL closer to the edge without just shoving him over, because his hope was for WoL to overcome against all odds. Ultimately Shadowbringer's ending was the outcome he most wanted to happen and the one he put the most active effort into achieving.
    While I agree, it's not yet explicit.
    (0)

    (Signature portrait by Amaipetisu)

    "I thought that my invincible power would hold the world captive, leaving me in a freedom undisturbed. Thus night and day I worked at the chain with huge fires and cruel hard strokes. When at last the work was done and the links were complete and unbreakable, I found that it held me in its grip." - Rabindranath Tagore

  9. #9
    Player
    Cleretic's Avatar
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    Sep 2021
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    Solution Eight (it's not as good)
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    Ein Dose
    World
    Mateus
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    Alchemist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiz33 View Post
    I know I'm very late to the party. What makes you guys think that Emet is dead at all?
    Mostly the giant hole in his chest from when we threw an axe made out of an apocalypse's worth of light through him. There's also the point where it's an extremely dramatic conclusion to Shardowbringers, Ardbert, and Emet-Selch's stories that would all be cheapened to nigh-worthlessness by him coming back, but mostly it's the hole in his chest.

    If he comes back after that? I give up, because there is no longer value or weight to the story being told or the events being depicted. If climactic all-in gambles can be undone, huge sacrifices thrown away, dramatic character finales can be rewound, what is even the point? It all becomes meaningless; why fight Fandaniel if death doesn't stop him, why invest anything in the conflict if there is no return? Why bother, at all?
    (6)

  10. #10
    Player SentioftheHoukai's Avatar
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    Nov 2021
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    Solitude in Sohr Khai. Hraesvelgr, shield me from these Scions.
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    445
    Character
    Nyx Deorum
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 64
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleretic View Post
    Mostly the giant hole in his chest from when we threw an axe made out of an apocalypse's worth of light through him. There's also the point where it's an extremely dramatic conclusion to Shardowbringers, Ardbert, and Emet-Selch's stories that would all be cheapened to nigh-worthlessness by him coming back, but mostly it's the hole in his chest.

    If he comes back after that? I give up, because there is no longer value or weight to the story being told or the events being depicted. If climactic all-in gambles can be undone, huge sacrifices thrown away, dramatic character finales can be rewound, what is even the point? It all becomes meaningless; why fight Fandaniel if death doesn't stop him, why invest anything in the conflict if there is no return? Why bother, at all?
    Because then we'd miss what happens next time on Final Fantasy Ball ZXIV. No, in all seriousness I'd be awfully surprised if he comes back in any meaningful fashion. What exactly could they even do with the guy now, narratively speaking? Lahabrea is practically guaranteed to surface in some capacity, but likely only in the sense that we're dealing with the aftermath of his weirdest shit in Pandaemonium. I always found it laughably ironic that the one dubbed "the genius" in Amaurot is the one who ultimately turned stark-raving laughing mad.
    (1)

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