No love for Sch

[Axzeriuth]

Sadly SCH didn't have anything new that was flashy to show and thats disappointing but it's not a death sentence, we need to see the details behind the abilities before we do that. Once gripe I had was still using the same ability since ARR (I'm looking at you Aldo). Was happy when WHM used a Holy II, was disappointed to see the same shield spell effects when SCH used Adlo.
I'll give SCH a go when I'm done with the other healers.

[RyuDragnier]

Are there situations in which you need to pump all 3 (Dissipation, Fey Union, and Summon Seraph) at the same time?

Genuinely curious.

I've had to use Summon Seraph, Fey Union, and Dissipation one after the other while panicking in a very bad run. It was a very VERY hectic run of a trial, leading to a very close clear...with me out of aetherflow, out of the gauge, out of MP, and almost everybody in the party having Brink of Death. I don't think I've ever used Lustrate that much since Heavensward was current content.

[BaconBits]

Its a shield healer that has strong mitigation and shields with a pet that enhances its mitigation and shields.

A shield healer that has more direct heals and regens than it does shields...

Welp, into the fire it goes.

[Euphares]

A shield healer that has more direct heals and regens than it does shields...

Welp, into the fire it goes.

One spell that applies a shield to the entire group with no cooldown and several mitigation spells, it is a healer so by nature it has to have abilities that heal, they cannot make every spell a shield that would be nonsensical. Its identity is still in-tact, even more with the addition of the new ST enhancement spell its getting.

[Dogempire]

One spell that applies a shield to the entire group with no cooldown and several mitigation spells, it is a healer so by nature it has to have abilities that heal, they cannot make every spell a shield that would be nonsensical. Its identity is still in-tact, even more with the addition of the new ST enhancement spell its getting.

It's intact sure, but why take a scholar when sage will probably be better than it in every way?

I don't know if you've tried clearing a relevant savage raid in barely passable gear with 2 white mages, but I guarantee you that it's way more smooth to have a SCH/AST and a white mage, and if sage does indeed end up being much more mitigation focused and Scholar remains largely unchanged then you just know that people are going to only want to accept sages in PF.

Raw healing stops being valuable the moment people's health is full, but there is no such thing as overshielding outside of when you just outright don't need to worry about damage and your shields fall off

[Euphares]

It's intact sure, but why take a scholar when sage will probably be better than it in every way?

I don't know if you've tried clearing a relevant savage raid in barely passable gear with 2 white mages, but I guarantee you that it's way more smooth to have a SCH/AST and a white mage, and if sage does indeed end up being much more mitigation focused and Scholar remains largely unchanged then you just know that people are going to only want to accept sages in PF.

Raw healing stops being valuable the moment people's health is full, but there is no such thing as overshielding outside of when you just outright don't need to worry about damage and your shields fall off

So the problems lie with the potential for Sage to be overtuned.


Which has nothing to do with SCH having no identity/bad design/a lacking kit.



Assuming they make content reward having an abundance of healing SCH will be favored, in content where you want more damage Sage will be favored. This seems fine to me, especially considering you can still take SCH in optimization settings and you can still take Sage in prog settings. You just won't be the best (in theory.)


Why does SCH have to be the best at both? Its okay for a job to be unfavored in certain situations. Especially so if despite that it is still viable.

[Dogempire]

So the problems lie with the potential for Sage to be overtuned.


Which has nothing to do with SCH having no identity/bad design/a lacking kit.



Assuming they make content reward having an abundance of healing SCH will be favored, in content where you want more damage Sage will be favored. This seems fine to me, especially considering you can still take SCH in optimization settings and you can still take Sage in prog settings. You just won't be the best (in theory.)


Why does SCH have to be the best at both? Its okay for a job to be unfavored in certain situations. Especially so if despite that it is still viable.

Eh, I'd argue that all the healers currently have bad designs and will probably continue to be badly designed with the exception of maybe sage.

Healers have way too many healing tools for the amount of healing they actually need to do and barely any damage tools for the other 90% of the time where they're doing damage. Sure in terms of both numbers and job identity nothing is wrong, but playing a healer just feels... soulless?

But hey, maybe SCH and SGE have barriers that stack and SCH retains its current healing capabilities, making the meta SCH + SGE, and people will stop running WHM and AST, which IMO would be hilarious but also sad.

[Nethereal]

So the problems lie with the potential for Sage to be overtuned.


Which has nothing to do with SCH having no identity/bad design/a lacking kit.



Assuming they make content reward having an abundance of healing SCH will be favored, in content where you want more damage Sage will be favored. This seems fine to me, especially considering you can still take SCH in optimization settings and you can still take Sage in prog settings. You just won't be the best (in theory.)


Why does SCH have to be the best at both? Its okay for a job to be unfavored in certain situations. Especially so if despite that it is still viable.

I mean it doesn't really have anything to do with Sage so much as it has to do with you only pick SCH over Noct Ast for sacred soil, sometimes chain or if you don't want to deal with star/cards.
Having Sage added and SCH having nothing really changed makes people feel like that trend will continue.

You pick a healer that feels the worst to play for the fact it has 1 skill that makes mitigation charts essentially irrelevant.

[Euphares]

I mean it doesn't really have anything to do with Sage so much as it has to do with you only pick SCH over Noct Ast for sacred soil, sometimes chain or if you don't want to deal with star/cards.
Having Sage added and SCH having nothing really changed makes people feel like that trend will continue.

You pick a healer that feels the worst to play for the fact it has 1 skill that makes mitigation charts essentially irrelevant.

I think its a bit dishonest to reduce SCH's kit to being a soil bot, spreadlo and chain are also pretty decent, as are excog and indom as well as both fairy abilities (not fae gauge.) Soil is the peak of its kit though I can agree there. But that still doesn't explain why it should be reworked or how its kit is poorly designed. Saying SCH is bad when its still being picked in every optimal comp (which is the only time these arguments actually matter) is wrong in my opinion. Its identity is solid, and the devs not changing anything fundamental only proves this. Are there things that can be better? Yes, namely the pet AI, but the pet AI being bad is an engine problem because SCH isn't the only one who suffers from it.

Eh, I'd argue that all the healers currently have bad designs and will probably continue to be badly designed with the exception of maybe sage.

Healers have way too many healing tools for the amount of healing they actually need to do and barely any damage tools for the other 90% of the time where they're doing damage. Sure in terms of both numbers and job identity nothing is wrong, but playing a healer just feels... soulless?

But hey, maybe SCH and SGE have barriers that stack and SCH retains its current healing capabilities, making the meta SCH + SGE, and people will stop running WHM and AST, which IMO would be hilarious but also sad.

I mean that's a valid critique and I am def in agreement there, no reason for healer kits to have so many abilities and most of them being waysided because you never need them. But that has nothing to do with SCH itself needing to be reworked and more that healers as a role need adjustments.

[Shironeko_Narunyan]

If SCH got Bane back, now that SMN loses all DOTs, then that would make it the premier DOT class, and the damage-oriented healer option.