Asmongold on NSFW mods

[Zsolen]

The word "puritanical" is getting thrown around because of the amount of outrage, hurt feelings and rallying against ERP and NSFW communities; while the equally illegal, and in many ways equally toxic, parser and FFLOGs community is defended to the death. There's a lot of prudes and hypocrites out there when it comes to discussions like this.

Children being sexualized vs parsers? Really? That's not even. And people aren't saying all of these NSFW people are trying to sexualize children, but they are bannable activities in the first place that allow the former sort of behavior to flourish. I certainly have not seen much in the way of denouncements of children being portrayed in such a manner from the NSFW supporters in this thread. It is mostly calling other people puritans or something along those lines and even defending child depictions saying it is fine.

I agree the website for parsing itself sucks, because people will have info uploaded w/o consent, but that is not even remotely on the same level. That said, SE doesn't care about the parsers themselves, as long as it is not used to harass.

[AngelCheese77]

End of the day forums are meant for discussion and where is the fun if everyone is always in agreement.

If the discussion is cordial and non-harassing sure. This topic clearly is none of those things.

[Goji1639]

Children being sexualized vs parsers? Really? That's not even. And people aren't saying all of these NSFW people are trying to sexualize children, but they are bannable activities in the first place that allow the former sort of behavior to flourish. I certainly have not seen much in the way of denouncements of children being portrayed in such a manner from the NSFW supporters in this thread. It is mostly calling other people puritans or something along those lines and even defending child depictions saying it is fine.

I agree the website for parsing itself sucks, because people will have info uploaded w/o consent, but that is not even remotely on the same level. That said, SE doesn't care about the parsers themselves, as long as it is not used to harass.

What children are being sexualized exactly? If it's real children then this is way beyond SE's purview and we need to get law enforcement involved. If it's completely fictional material being enjoyed in private by adults, and in no way involves real children, then who the fk cares?

Technically it's the same as parsers and logs; use them publicly and you're rightly punished, but if you keep it private and aren't hurting anyone then SE can't/won't do anything.

The only difference is all the faux outrage towards one and not the other.

[xxmiamorecadenza]

At the end of the day, at least from my perspective, folk can be as outraged as they like.

There is genuinely nothing they can really do about it. I’m absolutely certain that the FBI, law enforcement and social media platforms are perfectly aware of the countless folk who post inappropriate artwork. And I’m sure they can track people’s IPs with relative ease - but the whole situation doesn’t result in actual consequences for people who create it.

If law enforcement doesn’t really care then all you can do is block and move on.

[Zsolen]

What children are being sexualized exactly? If it's real children then this is way beyond SE's purview and we need to get law enforcement involved. If it's completely fictional material being enjoyed in private by adults, and in no way involves real children, then who the fk cares?

Technically it's the same as parsers and logs; use them publicly and you're rightly punished, but if you keep it private and aren't hurting anyone then SE can't/won't do anything.

The only difference is all the faux outrage towards one and not the other.

Depictions of even fictional minor characters in such a manner is illegal in many places. It also promotes pedophilia as normal and not something to be treated. It's not illegal to use a parser. It's also not morally wrong to use a parser.

Parsers also don't make people want to avoid playing the game. NSFW stuff does.

[Goji1639]

Depictions of even fictional minor characters in such a manner is illegal in many places. It also promotes pedophilia as normal and not something to be treated. It's not illegal to use a parser. It's also not morally wrong to use a parser.

Parsers also don't make people want to avoid playing the game. NSFW stuff does.

There's a lot of theories out there about how attraction works, but in general it's not something that can be "treated." Your orientation is what it is. Best pedophiles can do is simply avoid any involvement with real children, and fictional material helps them do that. Making fiction illegal is basically just puritanical, archaic nonsense that only exacerbates the problem; leaving people with unusual and prohibited attractions with no real options.

Also, public parser use can absolutely make people not want to play the game. They've turned WoW and other MMORPGs into a mess of verbal abuse and toxic elitism.

[Zsolen]

There's a lot of theories out there about how attraction works, but in general it's not something that can be "treated." Your orientation is what it is. Best pedophiles can do is simply avoid any involvement with real children, and fictional material helps them do that. Making fiction illegal is basically just puritanical, archaic nonsense that only exacerbates the problem; leaving people with unusual and prohibited attractions with no real options.

Also, public parser use can absolutely make people not want to play the game. They've turned WoW and other MMORPGs into a mess of verbal abuse and toxic elitism.

It absolutely can be treated. It's not an orientation. Don't compare it to the LGBTQ+ community. Someone else already made that mistake.

People don't care about parsers. They only care if people are toxic with using parsers.

[Ranaku]

It absolutely can be treated. It's not an orientation. Don't compare it to the LGBTQ+ community. Someone else already made that mistake.

People don't care about parsers. They only care if people are toxic with using parsers.

True that, it's not an orientation. Being attracted to children is a fetish at best. Like being into old people. It's not a sexuality, a pedophile still is either Hetero/Bi/Gay. Thus it's not an orientation and not part of the LGBTQ+ community.

And i agree, it can be treated through therapy and absolutely should be.

[EirolOcarrol]

I strongly disagree Puritanism or Prudishness is some kind of buzzword that is overused. It is a sadly enduring cultural phenomenon and cultural problem. It applies in a multitude of aspects of society. And there's no reason to assume that video game communities would be exempt from this mindset.

Also it's no wonder that people have described this thread as being an all around poor experience with various expressions. This is basically no more than the nine millionth iteration of the "Proshipper vs. Anti" culture war. Not once have I not seen this conversation not boil down to one side saying "you like problematic things, get therapy, freak" and the other side saying some variation of "fiction is not the same as reality, please learn the difference between fiction and reality". The same moral drama and purity policing is happening in the Genshin Impact fandom right now over Kaeya and Diluc shippers.

This is an old song being played. And the argument is never not toxic.

I personally sympathize with the Proshipper side of this culture war. And consider myself Sex Positive. I think that what people enjoy in fiction as a kink doesn't necessarily reflect their real life morals. Even if it's something I find distasteful I don't think someone is a bad person for enjoying it. I find the content of Mortal Kombat disgusting, so I just don't play it. I also find the content in Made in Abyss distressing and not fun, unappealing, disturbing, even. So I just don't watch it. I wish people could express that sort of live and let live attitude instead of trying to police others so much. It doesn't matter if you kink shame people for fictional incest, vore, furry, or anything else, people aren't going to stop liking that thing, just more toxic arguments online.

Personally, as someone who has spent a lot of money on Final Fantasy XIV, and proudly have had my account since 1.0. And as someone who has seen how toxic this has become. People stalked for even admitting to being a Proshipper and nothing beyond that, and worse than stalking. Toxic things I don't want to repeat. I didn't want my character, account, and player experience to be marred by this drama and culture war. I don't want to be internet infamous.

But I will go ahead and jump in that rabbit hole and hope for the best by saying that: I think that some of you are taking people's fictional kinks way too seriously as a reflection of morals. It's natural to be really immersed in games and characters, that's the whole point of fiction. And I won't say that there is a zero effect of fiction on reality. But some people are taking it way too far. Someone can like something different than you without being a predator.

I say this because people are drawing correlations or connections between making nude mods, and ERPing, which is a morally neutral to good thing. To people sexually soliciting minors in game and grooming them. These are two very different things. Using nude mods is not the same as ERPing. And ERPing between adults is not the same as grooming minors and does not lead to grooming minors. You are being unreasonable if you claim otherwise.

[Zsolen]

I say this because people are drawing correlations or connections between making nude mods, and ERPing, which is a morally neutral to good thing. To people sexually soliciting minors in game and grooming them. These are two very different things. Using nude mods is not the same as ERPing. And ERPing between adults is not the same as grooming minors and does not lead to grooming minors. You are being unreasonable if you claim otherwise.

People can tell the difference between adult activity between adults and adult activity between an adult an a child. They can also tell the difference between modding and ERP. FFXIV is known for both modding minor characters in a sexual light and grooming minors, because it has happened, and it will continue to happen. These people try to lump those concerned about minors into something it is not. Not many would care all that much if it was adults doing ERP privately or quietly using a NSFW mod on themselves w/o saying anything. The minor stuff is a simple thing to denounce. The issue is that NSFW modders and ERPers alike don't seem to interested in this problem. It is treated as a non-issue in every response I have ever received. But cooperation would be a far better thing here. I've tried cooperation in the past, but people claim nothing can be done about the minors. If I were in one of those groups or a defender of one of those groups, I would make it clear that the minor stuff is not okay and take steps to make sure that stuff doesn't happen, be it modding minors or grooming/ERP with minors. It is the defenders of these mods and ERP that say it it not possible to prevent. If we accept that as truth, we will eventually have to go scorched earth. SE can't keep the lid on this forever.

Pedophilia is not an okay fetish. it is something that is serious, and anyone that has it needs treatment, ASAP. Telling people that they don't need that treatment will put minors at risk. This goes far beyond people enjoying a video game.

I also love how everyone that sees nothing wrong with people acting on their pedophilia always claim they are the middle ground.