The trouble with telling tanks W2W pulls are a mandatory norm.

[Artemiz]

ah, my bad, I only just wanted to clarify the dzemael one really, tbh



I'd rather have sprout tanks try to wall to wall everything and see how if they can do it than single pullers, because you don't even need a tank if you're gonna do that
same goes for healing, too /shrug

There is a middle ground between W2W and single pulls though, especially in ARR. If the tank pulls 2 packs and the healer nudges them to pull a little bigger I would say that's healthy encouragement. Going from 0-100 isn't a particularly fruitful learning curve. 0-30-60-100 will almost always lead to a better learning environment.

[Rinhi]

There is a middle ground between W2W and single pulls though, especially in ARR. If the tank pulls 2 packs and the healer nudges them to pull a little bigger I would say that's healthy encouragement. Going from 0-100 isn't a particularly fruitful learning curve. 0-30-60-100 will almost always lead to a better learning environment.

sure, I agree there, but then again I'd rather have a 0-100 than a 0-10, which was basically my experience when I played healer for the first time all the way to 80 - though the same could be said about playing a DPS as well
people will just carry your bad, detrimental playstyle because it's seen as bad to give someone tips and advice because the struggling/bad player 'didn't ask for it' which is true, but on the other hand isn't, I don't know what word I'd use for it, healthy? constructive? for the community/playerbase, to foster this kind of mindset, to coddle the bad players and not even trying to help them because 'they don't want help', y'know?

[Artemiz]

sure, I agree there, but then again I'd rather have a 0-100 than a 0-10, which was basically my experience when I played healer for the first time all the way to 80 - though the same could be said about playing a DPS as well
people will just carry your bad, detrimental playstyle because it's seen as bad to give someone tips and advice because the struggling/bad player 'didn't ask for it' which is true, but on the other hand isn't, I don't know what word I'd use for it, healthy? constructive? for the community/playerbase, to foster this kind of mindset, to coddle the bad players and not even trying to help them because 'they don't want help', y'know?

The problem is learning is a 2 person job, you can't help or teach someone who doesn't want to learn. Look on the bright side, you will sometimes get parties where everyone is on point and you get a great run, someone who refuses to learn will always have at least one bad player, themselves.

[ForteNightshade]

The problem is learning is a 2 person job, you can't help or teach someone who doesn't want to learn. Look on the bright side, you will sometimes get parties where everyone is on point and you get a great run, someone who refuses to learn will always have at least one bad player, themselves.

Which is perfectly acceptable in the 1-50 range but isn't by levels 70+. By that point, you aren't new and shouldn't be learning in dungeons like Holminster Switch. Frankly, even 60+ is pushing it, especially now that all those dungeons have been nerfed into the ground. If you can't handle a wall pull by 70, you should be going back down to easier dungeons not attempting others to adapt to your unwillingness to learn.

[Artemiz]

Which is perfectly acceptable in the 1-50 range but isn't by levels 70+. By that point, you aren't new and shouldn't be learning in dungeons like Holminster Switch. Frankly, even 60+ is pushing it, especially now that all those dungeons have been nerfed into the ground. If you can't handle a wall pull by 70, you should be going back down to easier dungeons not attempting others to adapt to your unwillingness to learn.

So people aren't allowed to learn pulls now which even the biggest W2W advocates use as an example of a difficult pull?

[ForteNightshade]

So people aren't allowed to learn pulls now which even the biggest W2W advocates use as an example of a difficult pull?

That isn't what I said. Your previous posts implied learning how to wall pull period not a specific pull itself. Hence why I said you shouldn't be learning how to do wall pulls at 71 but should already be practicing them by 50. Put simply if you're still uncomforting pulling more than a single pack in any higher level dungeon, you should go back to the easier ones or use Trusts for practice.

[Artemiz]

That isn't what I said. Your previous posts implied learning how to wall pull period not a specific pull itself. Hence why I said you shouldn't be learning how to do wall pulls at 71 but should already be practicing them by 50. Put simply if you're still uncomforting pulling more than a single pack in any higher level dungeon, you should go back to the easier ones or use Trusts for practice.

Surely learning to W2W pull, especially in a leveling dungeons includes knowing what you're pulling. Is there anything I need to stun, what AoE patterns am I facing, when should I use my invulnerability, where should I make the camp, are there any ranged mobs, can I fit it all in my AoE radius. You need to know all of that and its pull specific. We can all cycle cooldowns but there is far more to being efficient with W2W pulling than that. So yes, people will still need to learn in 70+ dungeons.