The trouble with telling tanks W2W pulls are a mandatory norm.

[rofland]

Should just have a note in Hall of the Novice that you're expected to pull 2 packs for 1-50 and wall to wall after.

[Artemiz]

Oh man, looks like you can't say anything contrary to the OP without their feelings being hurt. Oh well, I'll jump out of this safe space. Enjoy your single pulls & enjoy the box you trap yourself in by saying you can't do this, can't do that. DUngon2hard

Who said my feelings are hurt? For the record though, I have no trouble tanking as I've been doing it in MMO's for over 15 years. I get frustrated when I'm not the tank, not when I am.
I've also said, several times already that experienced groups can pull big. If you're going to have a little tantrum, at least understand why you're having it.

[Artemiz]

Don't make responses that sound like: "oh, here come the forum pros trying to tell me that I'm wrong!", when people are saying valid responses to you. That is, if you don't want to be perceived this way.

---

Not every reply in this thread is a direct response to me personally. That's why in the post you got so triggered by I used the word Us, not I. The point, you so spectacularly managed to miss because you got triggered, is that the git gud response is not especially helpful. It doesn't matter how easy you personally find tanking, because that isn't the point, what matters is players who can't handle W2W think they have to and we all wipe. Comprende? If you could take 5 minutes away from humble bragging, or trying to score internet points you might understand the point of the entire discussion.
My point about the real world of the DF is these forums, in no way represent what actually happens in game. It's like a completely different universe.

As someone who has tanked for 15 years, you should know that tanking in this game is incredibly brain dead, minus the few instances I mentioned in a previous post. We're on the same page on some things; experienced groups can overcome some of the 'harder' things.

My problem is the narrative being pushed that wall to wall is problematic, can't be done, shouldn't be done, etc, just because they happened to do it in one of the places that you CAN'T. The places you can do W2W far outnumber those that you can't.

Sigh, try keeping up, please. It's easy with a well geared (preferably level sync'd) group of experienced players. It is significantly more problematic with a minimum ilevel bunch of sprouts. The problem with telling everyone how easy it is and how it's effectively mandatory is those said sprouts then sprint off to W2W pull when they can't handle it and we all get to wipe. I've been leveling DPS jobs recently and it gets a quite old watching the sproutling tank sprint off as I can just tell what's about to happen.

[Burmecia]

why the f do we care so much about w2w pulls?
--- been playing since HW so of course i w2w pull, it is not problem to me

but i do not expect everyone to be like me. i would not recommend anyone to be like me because i am uncool and unpleasant
--- and not using duty finder is option if someone absolutely, truly, vehemently, ultimately, invariably cannot below average people in their grab bag group

seem simple deduction to me: "i want my tomes fast from roulette, so i use duty finder, and once in blue moon get matched with people who wanna do things... differently"
"but those relatively fast tomes are worth more to me than my sanity so duty finder it is for me baby!"

relative here meaning it takes more time to make pf for tome farming, because no one does that
and no one times two joins pf for tome farming obliging you to have bis and speerunning experience (of dumdum dungeon) and whatever nonsense
because no one does that.

[Rinhi]

Thank you for stating what I already said.

ah, my bad, I only just wanted to clarify the dzemael one really, tbh

Nice to see the forum superstars are still popping in to tell us all we need to get gud.

Meanwhile in the real world of DF.......

I'd rather have sprout tanks try to wall to wall everything and see how if they can do it than single pullers, because you don't even need a tank if you're gonna do that
same goes for healing, too /shrug

[Artemiz]

ah, my bad, I only just wanted to clarify the dzemael one really, tbh



I'd rather have sprout tanks try to wall to wall everything and see how if they can do it than single pullers, because you don't even need a tank if you're gonna do that
same goes for healing, too /shrug

There is a middle ground between W2W and single pulls though, especially in ARR. If the tank pulls 2 packs and the healer nudges them to pull a little bigger I would say that's healthy encouragement. Going from 0-100 isn't a particularly fruitful learning curve. 0-30-60-100 will almost always lead to a better learning environment.

[Rinhi]

There is a middle ground between W2W and single pulls though, especially in ARR. If the tank pulls 2 packs and the healer nudges them to pull a little bigger I would say that's healthy encouragement. Going from 0-100 isn't a particularly fruitful learning curve. 0-30-60-100 will almost always lead to a better learning environment.

sure, I agree there, but then again I'd rather have a 0-100 than a 0-10, which was basically my experience when I played healer for the first time all the way to 80 - though the same could be said about playing a DPS as well
people will just carry your bad, detrimental playstyle because it's seen as bad to give someone tips and advice because the struggling/bad player 'didn't ask for it' which is true, but on the other hand isn't, I don't know what word I'd use for it, healthy? constructive? for the community/playerbase, to foster this kind of mindset, to coddle the bad players and not even trying to help them because 'they don't want help', y'know?

[Artemiz]

sure, I agree there, but then again I'd rather have a 0-100 than a 0-10, which was basically my experience when I played healer for the first time all the way to 80 - though the same could be said about playing a DPS as well
people will just carry your bad, detrimental playstyle because it's seen as bad to give someone tips and advice because the struggling/bad player 'didn't ask for it' which is true, but on the other hand isn't, I don't know what word I'd use for it, healthy? constructive? for the community/playerbase, to foster this kind of mindset, to coddle the bad players and not even trying to help them because 'they don't want help', y'know?

The problem is learning is a 2 person job, you can't help or teach someone who doesn't want to learn. Look on the bright side, you will sometimes get parties where everyone is on point and you get a great run, someone who refuses to learn will always have at least one bad player, themselves.

[van_arn]

The problem is learning is a 2 person job, you can't help or teach someone who doesn't want to learn. Look on the bright side, you will sometimes get parties where everyone is on point and you get a great run, someone who refuses to learn will always have at least one bad player, themselves.

This is why it’s important to kick.

[ForteNightshade]

The problem is learning is a 2 person job, you can't help or teach someone who doesn't want to learn. Look on the bright side, you will sometimes get parties where everyone is on point and you get a great run, someone who refuses to learn will always have at least one bad player, themselves.

Which is perfectly acceptable in the 1-50 range but isn't by levels 70+. By that point, you aren't new and shouldn't be learning in dungeons like Holminster Switch. Frankly, even 60+ is pushing it, especially now that all those dungeons have been nerfed into the ground. If you can't handle a wall pull by 70, you should be going back down to easier dungeons not attempting others to adapt to your unwillingness to learn.