The trouble with telling tanks W2W pulls are a mandatory norm.

[van_arn]

so, what you are saying is none of my mains are wanted or required any more.

thanks I guess.

If your mains insist on single-pulling expert roulette dungeons I certainly won’t act in your defense if a motion to dismiss comes up.

[Yeol]

That's like saying "if a genius can do it, then everyone can". By that I mean, you are glossing over the fact that actual preparation goes into those runs. Which tank to go with, which healer to go with if we need one, do we use food/potions, and so on and so forth.

Someone asked for proof that no healer run was possible and I provided it. That’s all.

So just to clarify, yes W2W pulls are expected in Expert roulette, this is not new, it's not hard, and it's not impressive.

I agree. This is what I was trying to get across with my first reply to this post.

[Kes13a]

If your mains insist on single-pulling expert roulette dungeons I certainly won’t act in your defense if a motion to dismiss comes up.

my mains are healers... who are apparently not required.

I generally do not tank as a preference. when I do, I tend to be cautious, not single pull however, but definitely not wall to wall

[Nestama]

not single pull however, but definitely not wall to wall

Considering how most dungeons in FFXIV are designed these days (two sets of trash and then wall), you kinda would be doing single pulls. If you're chain pulling (running off to grab the next pack once the first pack is at half health or something), then you're only going to annoy your party.

[Kes13a]

Considering how most dungeons in FFXIV are designed these days (two sets of trash and then wall), you kinda would be doing single pulls. If you're chain pulling (running off to grab the next pack once the first pack is at half health or something), then you're only going to annoy your party.

as you missed quoting that I said, I do not tank as a preference since I am one of those useless healers from what I understand since all you need is a tank and dps.

when I DO tank, I am cautious, if I know there is two packs, then yeah, I guess I pull "wall to wall". but I dont usually run through places like Amaurot and collect every mob I can, if that makes sense.

[Nestama]

I think the Anyder dungeons would be a better example to use, then (Amaurot is only two trash to walls, IIRC). First set of trash in Akadaemia is roughly three sets (so roughly 9-10+ mobs) and final pull of Anamnesis is four sets (six if you separate the summoned trash).

[Artemiz]

my mains are healers... who are apparently not required.

I generally do not tank as a preference. when I do, I tend to be cautious, not single pull however, but definitely not wall to wall

While I am sure you can see what's happening here (people purposefully misunderstanding you to strawman and score internet points) I would say that any tank with more than 2 functioning brain cells quickly learns to respect and appreciate a good healer.

[ForteNightshade]

That's like saying "if a genius can do it, then everyone can". By that I mean, you are glossing over the fact that actual preparation goes into those runs. Which tank to go with, which healer to go with if we need one, do we use food/potions, and so on and so forth.

No. It's saying that most dungeons in this game are so easy you literally don't need a healer to complete them. Therefore, a group with a healer shouldn't have any problems. The solo exception to this are early ARR leveling dungeons and super pulls. I can appreciate a less experienced tank not wanting to pull literally everything in Mt. Gulg or even being slightly intimated by Holminster Switch's second pull. But anything less than two packs means you aren't ready to be tanking at a higher level and should practice either with lower level dungeons or Trusts until you get a feel for the damage and your CD management.

There is absolutely no excuse to small pull Expert, which are laughably easy.

[Packetdancer]

so, what you are saying is none of my mains are wanted or required any more.

thanks I guess.

So here’s the thing: no job is *required* in casual content (and even some high-end content, situationally—witness Delubrum savage runs of healers only with no tanks or DPS, or whatnot), *provided* the other people running said content are *really good* at the jobs that they are taking. And that they do a lot of preparation, and other stuff.

Heck, I’ve run a level 80 with two healers and two DPS once, to see if we could make it work. (We did, but it required using raid food/pots and some careful planning, as well as everyone being ready to bring their best when it came to burning things down quickly before we ran out of various healer mitigations. It also required both DPS to be casters and thus have Addle to use. And even then it took three tries.)

None of that means a job or role is useless. After all, the vast majority of players aren’t going to execute on stuff at that level spur-of-the-moment (it requires some serious planning), much less with random other people in Duty Finder.

Just because a group of 48 healers can clear Delubrum Savage after spending several weeks carefully planning out who is taking what essences and actions and how they’ll deal with mechanics (and making sure everyone has gotten lots of Rays in Zadnor), etc., does not mean that tanks are not needed in 99% of Delubrum Savage runs.

Any more than “just because *some* really good athletes can probably run up 50 flights of stairs quickly and without being exhausted, if they’re rested first and hydrated and otherwise prepared” means “there’s no need for elevators anywhere any longer.”

Elevators make it *faster* to get stuff up and down buildings, and make it *possible* for folks who maybe can’t use the stairs so readily. Just like healers can make it a lot faster to blast through a dungeon, and can make it possible *at all* for folks who maybe aren’t A-tier tank mains who can plan out every mitigation use for a dungeon ahead of time—or even really good tanks who just happen to get paired with DPS who appear to be asleep.

(Now, I *do* wish people wouldn’t use those experimental non-standard runs to try to illustrate that big pulls are feasible, because I feel as though it really doesn’t ever actually do much productive in these threads.)

[Goji1639]

But anything less than two packs means you aren't ready to be tanking at a higher level and should practice either with lower level dungeons or Trusts until you get a feel for the damage and your CD management.

This is my problem with the general mindset of the forum tanking police. There's no bar indicating that people who small pull aren't ready to be tanking at a higher level; that's just some crap you all made up. Small pulling tanks clear the content moderately slower, but they clear it all the same. There's no requirement here; this isn't a company you own and the tanks you queue with aren't job applicants. Your made up rules and expectations don't matter.

I don't think large pulls are unreasonably difficult for tanks, or anything like that, but I do think that if you REALLY care that much you should either man up and tank yourself, or start a PF group where you get to make the rules. Otherwise when you queue with randoms you get what you get.