Red Mage: Potential adjustments

[VictorTheed]

Other then changing that move that buffs rdm damage as well as physical damage to buffing everyone withing the distance of it's damage then I just want more support.

Maybe an esuna or way to give mp to others like we could in storm blood, an aoe veracure would be nice as well.

[ICountFrom0]

I can only really see that going either of two ways, though: either the bonus is so great that you forgo melee combos (very, very unlikely), or it really just slightly decreases the ppm penalty of overcapping while also making RDM prefer to burn Mana nearer to 100|100 (which in turn makes RDM feel that little bit more sluggish / slow to see its burst potential, and susceptible to conflicting priorities in maxing raid CD windows vs. maximizing its own throughput, neither of which feels particularly good).

I guess I just wonder why you'd most want this, not to say it's a bad idea. Ultimately, it'd be little different from just base tuning on Aero/Thunder, except in that it gains some cool factor in exchange for further back-loading its dps (likely in conflict with raid CD windows). Now, that already seems an even trade to me, and the backloading could be compensated for elsewhere, but I'm just curious what most appeals to you in the concept.

Honetly?

Because in POTD I never, EVER get my full combo out until bosses... and I'd love to be a bit more powerful.

It also looks like an easy place to squeeze a little more power without causing too much trouble.

[Shurrikhan]

It also looks like an easy place to squeeze a little more power without causing too much trouble.

Just a quick note: if power is the primary concern, any tuning knob would do, so long as it comes from 82-90. RDM is already quite strong at 80 (or, for that matter, below), outpacing SMN for rDPS despite having perhaps higher potential utility and (arguably) ease of play.

Honestly?

Because in POTD I never, EVER get my full combo out until bosses... and I'd love to be a bit more powerful.

I feel like that's a decently fair concern, even if PotD isn't exactly "mainstay" content.

That being said, are there any other solutions to that issue you can imagine that you might find satisfying?

For my part, for instance, I feel like I'd like to be better able to leverage partial combos, better reach enemies to continue chaining attacks, and more quickly reach a full, or at least effective, combo (such as through a lower %gauge requirement).

[Gruntler]

...Hope already fading...

On the nature of non-homogeneity, 'RDM doesn't have a personal defensive cooldown' seems a strange thing to want to maintain for 'identity.' If it were handled in a different way, no big deal; that's just an example.

only to undo a core mechanic and remove a layer of skill ceiling?

There's a mechanic that lets you dump your procs going into melee without sacrificing a longcast or risking reprocing the thing you're trying to dump? Huh. That's news. Which ability is that?

Granted, if we went with Rongway's Holy->Flare or Flare->Holy Lance-Mastery-but-for-RDM idea, that skill ceiling component would already be gone

Not a fan of tossing having the back and forth thing either. The issue is that RDM doesn't really have an answer to being overproc'd so adding a tool to help isn't a bad thing. If you could stop procs, that'd be a different story.

I don't see how a lack of Shoha-equivalent is a "pain point"

I'm opposed to more weaponskills. There's no point in it. I'm not opposed to more actions that are flavored around the sword, ala contre-sixte or fleche.

would just be... Lightspeed, minus the MP cost reduction, if it remains on a duration -- or Triplecast, if charge-based.

Lightspeed is a completely different cooldown on a job that's based around proccing swiftcasts to evade a five second cast time, than it is on a job where all the non-rez cast times are a gcd or less. Triplecast on RDM would momentarily change the actual rotation during the duration. So it's more like Hypercharge than Lightspeed. Chainspell without the damage bonus component would still be a damage buff cooldown on RDM that it wouldn't be on AST.

If we were able to build up to some haste-pumped spell-blending rapid-fire ramping-nuke goodness

So Lost Chainspell?

get a power trait ... only to then have Verthunder/Veraero nerfed when RDM turns out to be overtuned

I mean, that's literally never happened for RDM, it's always been undertuned to start. If they're going to end up giving RDM a trait to buff spells just start with that. With Verthunder III in the preview it's actually likely that is the plan.

Let's leave emergency/emergent tuning to tuning patches, rather than muddying a toolkit with redundant tuning knobs.

So... Causticbite/Stormbite/Glare/Dia/Thunder IV/Malefic IV/insert traited upgrades are bad becauuuuusse...?

[Shurrikhan]

There's a mechanic that lets you dump your procs going into melee without sacrificing a longcast or risking reprocing the thing you're trying to dump? Huh. That's news. Which ability is that?

The 30-second duration attached to the proc itself. You've no reason to have both procs going in and can make it so the only proc you risk is the one that would not be wasted by Flare/Holy. It's not a comprehensive solution, obviously, as you might somehow go an entire second builder phase without ever failing to reproc the earlier phase's proc or that provided by Flare/Holy, but the chance of that is slim enough that it seems quite a stretch to call not being able to purge/spend procs more of a "pain point" than simply a natural implication of RDM's core mechanic that adds to the job's skill ceiling...

Not a fan of tossing having the back and forth thing either.

The... core mechanic of Black<->White spells...? I think I misunderstood, but if not, what would be more appealing that could fill its place? (I'm admittedly pretty neutral on it.)

So... Causticbite/Stormbite/Glare/Dia/Thunder IV/Malefic IV/insert traited upgrades are bad becauuuuusse...?

If there's literally nothing else / more interesting you could do to increase the job's PPM, go for it. But the more that goes into a raw power trait like generic skill upgrades or "Another 5% damage modifier for your Enochian, hurray!", the less budget remains for anything with even a modicum of interest or novelty attached.

I mean, that's literally never happened for RDM, it's always been undertuned to start. If they're going to end up giving RDM a trait to buff spells just start with that. With Verthunder III in the preview it's actually likely that is the plan.

A sample size of 2 hardly disproves any and all possibility that a job might end up overtuned...

And again, you're then asking that they specifically not give you anything more interesting with that slot, instead consuming that slot just to tune you higher. And, hell, if your theory holds out, it'll inevitably fail anyways, because those traits were there on the expansion's release.

Chainspell without the damage bonus component would still be a damage buff cooldown on RDM that it wouldn't be on AST.

Even Lightspeed was a potential damage buff back when Gravity was on a 3s cast-time. That some jobs get more value out of Swiftcasts than others doesn't change that what you're proposing is Swiftcast-for-X-seconds (Lightspeed) or Swiftcast-for-n-charges (Triplecast).

Yes, it'd be a decent enough ppm increase, as you'd be getting an extra Aero or two's bonus over average ppgcd per Chainspell's duration. But is that really where we want to cap the idea? No actually novelty, just slap Triple/Quadcast on a job that disproportionately benefits from instant casts?

So Lost Chainspell?

The "nuke" component of Lost Chainspell is literally just "pay more MP (a non-mechanic outside of limiting rezzes) for a (free, effectively) huge damage buff." There is no sense of "ramping up". There is no sense of "spell-blending". It's just 30 seconds of Swiftcast on a 90s CD, or effectively permanent Swiftcast (90s duration) if paired with SotW, and a damage buff.

I'm opposed to more weaponskills. There's no point in it. I'm not opposed to more actions that are flavored around the sword, ala contre-sixte or fleche.

That's fair. As the job stands, I'd agree.

Heck, though I wouldn't mind a higher portion of GCDs spent on melee actions, I see no point in having 7 separate buttons (Riposte, Zwerchhau, Redoublement, Corps, Displacement, Engagement, Moulinet) for what really needs only 3 buttons and a bit of added flexibility on Displacement.

(If melee amounted to more than just a generic spender mechanism, though, I wouldn't mind more weaponskills, so long as they added commensurate depth. That's a rather tight constraint, though.)

[Aghis]

RDM ist most boring and uninspired class i ever played.
That includes the 1 button spaming WoW frost mage from classic WoW. At least that mage had other things to do, when not dealing dmg (like crowd controle).

Starting with the cast animations.
3/4 of the spells look like, i would look when tossing a small ball to a kid that never catched a ball before.

You could delete half of its spells right now, and (almost) nothing would change at the rota. So why are those spells there? Just to fill up another collored Bar?
2 Spells to fill up a white bar and the exact same spells with another name (and animation) to fill up a black bar?

The black mages spells at least do something different. Fire for big bam but expensive mana, ice to fill up the mana. So it does not feel like doing the same thing.

Who ever managed to persuade quality controle at Square Enix, that this is fun and should be in the game, is polititian matierial for a countrys president

This class needs a "burn it to the ground and reinvent it" rework.
Ill max it out and never touch it again.

omg and im trying to be constructive here.

[Absimiliard]

Red mage melee attacks should have positional requirements.

[StriderShinryu]

RDM ist most boring and uninspired class i ever played.
That includes the 1 button spaming WoW frost mage from classic WoW. At least that mage had other things to do, when not dealing dmg (like crowd controle).

Starting with the cast animations.
3/4 of the spells look like, i would look when tossing a small ball to a kid that never catched a ball before.

You could delete half of its spells right now, and (almost) nothing would change at the rota. So why are those spells there? Just to fill up another collored Bar?
2 Spells to fill up a white bar and the exact same spells with another name (and animation) to fill up a black bar?

The black mages spells at least do something different. Fire for big bam but expensive mana, ice to fill up the mana. So it does not feel like doing the same thing.

Who ever managed to persuade quality controle at Square Enix, that this is fun and should be in the game, is polititian matierial for a countrys president

This class needs a "burn it to the ground and reinvent it" rework.
Ill max it out and never touch it again.

omg and im trying to be constructive here.

I mean, you could just not play it?
Clearly there are a lot of players who do enjoy RDM and even with all of the sometimes heated discussion in this thread it's mostly dancing around "we like it as it is but it could have this added or that added."

[Kalaam]

Lol that comment "RDM isn't BLM so it's bad" basically.

[Katie_Kitty]

Lol that comment "RDM isn't BLM so it's bad" basically.

And he's not even a good BLM. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Everyone's got opinions I guess.