Let's Talk: EN players in JP data centre

[TaleraRistain]

I'm on Aether and it's the same as Nimura. I was just in Breach the other day and we got to the last boss and multiple people were like "cutscenes" "two in cutscenes" etc. Ironically the folks in their group were then like "Or they'll skip them lol" and we went ahead and proceeded. But there was no pressure to skip and since roulette curses me with that raid a lot lately, I can attest that we do try to wait. There was another instance in Bunker not too long back where this guy was just being an absolute turd about people watching cutscenes. Calling them weebs and saying they could watch at the inn and why should we wait for people who couldn't bother to do it before this point. He both got told off by half the raid in alliance chat and nobody would raise him when he died. Yeah, he got a carry on that fight, but the rest of the raid still enjoyed watching him floor tank and whine about it.

I see hunt trains wait all the time when I'm out gathering. We also waited all the time in Eureka. I remember the Cheer emotes were quite active when we were waiting for people to assemble. Do we have the jerk early pullers? Yes. Every server has bad eggs. But they usually get told off by more than one person for doing it.

Nimura is right that you won't be greeted every time. Like Nimura said, some may not have a keyboard. Some greet with an auto command and I have no issue with that. My default is "\o". Sometimes there isn't a greeting but we chat in other areas, too. Or just the "tyfp" "gg" at the end. There is usually at least that.

B being main tank was something I never heard of until people started talking about JP. Especially in WoD, it's either A or C since B means B's healers can't go into the belly on Cerberus since they have to babysit the tank. But generally it's kind of whoever wants the job and outside of a rare exception, all the tanks stay near each other so they can take over quickly if one goes down. It's only when someone wants to troll by starting a Provoke war from the other side that they spin the boss or a newbie that people try to help guide.

I've seen people try to throw up the vote dismiss after one wipe in PF groups, lol. Or even in alliance raids sometimes. Generally everyone is like "WTF" and "Leave if you're that impatient". Far more often after the one or two impatient ones have left, I see everyone else stubbornly staying like "We WILL pass this, or die trying". Even Aether does have a point where we'll toss in the towel and a vote dismiss goes through, but we definitely gave it our all before that. I do think that is a difference, though, because it is in our culture to not think as well of someone who gives up what we consider too easily. I *have* seen DF groups that want to keep going that will kick someone at their request who doesn't, though, so they don't get a penalty, but that's usually after a few tries.

I think it's fine if JP doesn't like shout or yell, but honestly it would be kind of boring and rather cold feeling without it on NA. But I come from old school MMOs where shout was our primary communication. And I don't really mind the content. There are people who advertise their clubs or FCs. Some of those are quite creative. There are actual conversations about things, or just general silliness as we wait for roulette. And what I like the most (at least on my server) is that if someone asks a question they get tons of people willing to give them the answer. Yeah, we get the occasional set of folks being snippy, but even then people tell them to take it to /tell. It's very rare we don't police ourselves in areas with high shout activity. When I go somewhere and see a lot of shout chat, it feels warm and alive and active for me.

[Saphyra_Morwyn]

B being main tank was something I never heard of until people started talking about JP. Especially in WoD, it's either A or C since B means B's healers can't go into the belly on Cerberus since they have to babysit the tank. But generally it's kind of whoever wants the job and outside of a rare exception, all the tanks stay near each other so they can take over quickly if one goes down.

Here, it's alliance A that goes into the belly while C takes care of the wolfsbanes. With this wave of new players though, WoD has started being a wipefest that some ppl try to avoid again.

I've seen people try to throw up the vote dismiss after one wipe in PF groups, lol. Or even in alliance raids sometimes. Generally everyone is like "WTF" and "Leave if you're that impatient". Far more often after the one or two impatient ones have left, I see everyone else stubbornly staying like "We WILL pass this, or die trying". Even Aether does have a point where we'll toss in the towel and a vote dismiss goes through, but we definitely gave it our all before that. I do think that is a difference, though, because it is in our culture to not think as well of someone who gives up what we consider too easily. I *have* seen DF groups that want to keep going that will kick someone at their request who doesn't, though, so they don't get a penalty, but that's usually after a few tries.

The 3 wipes disband thing applies in general but it's particularly noticeable when ppl do savage weekly reclears using Raid Finder.
We post the macro, everyone calls out their positions, we attempt it once, twice, three times. Something is not clicking here when it's supposed to work like a well-oiled machine so we vote disband and regroup again with RF. I personally don't think it's about being impatient, because if it's a normal trial with first timers for example, we'll try to go until we clear for the sprouts. That's casual content though.

PF groups usually state how many wipes before they disband, this could be 3 or 5, or 3 before p2 in 12s and as many as it takes to clear after.


I can see a lot of it being due to cultural difference and that is partly why I made the video for new players who may never have to considered about this aspect of online gaming before.

If Saphyra meant 3 wipes and disband in a Raid Finder party... I guess that's more understandable. But everyone joined of their own volition, anyway, so it still sounds like impatience and failure to really analyze what's going wrong. Are there exceptions if the wipes are caused by disconnects at pivotal points?
.

Rather than pointing out what or "who" is making the mistakes, the Japanese would rather disband and reform. I'm not saying that this is a bad or a good thing, but it's a thing that is understandable from a cultural stand point, I think. Wipes caused by DCs usually don't count, no.

[TaleraRistain]

Here, it's alliance A that goes into the belly while C takes care of the wolfsbanes. With this wave of new players though, WoD has started being a wipefest that some ppl try to avoid again.

A = adds, B = belly, C = chains for us

[MiaShino]

What time are you going through this stuff at? I have not seen any of this in Primal in a long long time.

Hmmm, it is most varied even for just myself. I try to play when it late because the experience is better then. Friends (I get many stories from them) play at times most random. The agreement is that prime hours 4 - 12pm EST. Weekends are not so good too.

I don't know what kind of experience you've been having but 90% of that video it's the same in Aether and Chaos DCs (the 2 where I most played).

Me and partner and family have had not the best time on NA.

it doesnt look like you had enough experience with hunt trains in NA.

I probably do need more time with them. The first two experiences were so bad that I did not wish to try again. I did have smaller experience with hunts and forgot to remember. The smaller groups to kill single A or S rank were much nicer.

Sometimes there ARE some players who actually dont wait players viewing cutscenes, I agree

Our luck seems bad with this, very very bad. It was not always this way when we first started playing this I will say but it did happen.

You will not be greeted every time you do a duty

I was raised to greet in relaxed social situations so this is shock or was. In JP it is considered more disrespectful not to greet others even with simple bow.

it is always full of sprouts and players who do not know how to tank properly (especially now with the new wave of players), spinning the boss is not a behaviour we do for fun.

Ohhh perhaps aye but myself and family or friends do try to look for other sprouts. The last World of Darkness had only four new players and all three tanks were in ilvl 520 plus. They spun away though and died lots to doom.

for us this would just look like you're an impatient player or being salty.

This is major point of contention between English and JP I feel. JP values efficiency and outcome more so three wipes is not efficient clear time anymore. Instead JP would prefer to try with new party instead of explaining in duty what each member could do better. In NA (I do not have EU experience) it is different how party finder and duty finder is used. JP duty finder is used for farm and clear which three wipes is not, that is practice so you use party finder. If NA adopted this there would be no mentors upset about fifty minute EX primals.

I'm not here picking on you, I'm just in shock that your experience in NA is SO different from the one I have and I'm sure I'm not the only one here.

I do not think you were, this was a friendly post to me! I am surprised too and upset for my friends because I promised them a fun experience. We do try to play together only now so it is not as bad anymore.

I would like to reply to others but the post is already so darn long! I wish to give some JP perspective to NA, I feel it would help. Many things NA considers JP doing to be rude JP is not done out of malice or xenophobia. We have way of doing things that is proven working so they stick with that.

To answer one additional thing, I play mostly on the NA server Primal now because this is where I moved. JP would give high ping but I am almost willing to accept this. Covid and finances and family make moving back to JP difficult.

Edit; I messed up the quotes because I can be special at the times.

[Vyrerus]

A = adds, B = belly, C = chains for us

And when we were smarter/it was more current it was, ""All" DPS go into the belly." Tanks and Heals deal with Cerb/adds. When that used to be common, the stomachs would die so much more quickly. ABC strat is all people remember though, cause it's easy to remember. Which is kinda bad news if all of the bad DPS are in B. Though, at least as I remember it, there was more of a preference for ABC on Aether and an All DPS preference on Primal.

I think it ultimately fell out of favor because only 8 people can actually enter... I think? Not sure (Always thought it was at least 12, having entered the belly and seen other people not in my party enter no problem). But even so, nowadays ABC gets employed, it always seems like people on NA don't actually want to go into the belly because of the DPS loss from shrinking. Or they just don't know. As helpful as the mnemonic is for divvying up duties, it doesn't explain the mechanics, heh.

[TaleraRistain]

And when we were smarter/it was more current it was, ""All" DPS go into the belly." Tanks and Heals deal with Cerb/adds. When that used to be common, the stomachs would die so much more quickly. ABC strat is all people remember though, cause it's easy to remember. Which is kinda bad news if all of the bad DPS are in B. Though, at least as I remember it, there was more of a preference for ABC on Aether and an All DPS preference on Primal.

I think it ultimately fell out of favor because only 8 people can actually enter... I think? Not sure (Always thought it was at least 12, having entered the belly and seen other people not in my party enter no problem). But even so, nowadays ABC gets employed, it always seems like people on NA don't actually want to go into the belly because of the DPS loss from shrinking. Or they just don't know. As helpful as the mnemonic is for divvying up duties, it doesn't explain the mechanics, heh.

Holy necro thread, but since someone else necro'd it, I'll say on this that a lot of the time on Aether everyone and their brother wants to go into the belly now and nobody wants to do adds. I've found myself tanking them a lot as either a healer or dps.

[Vyrerus]

Rather than pointing out what or "who" is making the mistakes, the Japanese would rather disband and reform. I'm not saying that this is a bad or a good thing, but it's a thing that is understandable from a cultural stand point, I think. Wipes caused by DCs usually don't count, no.

To be fair, even though we try to analyze what's going wrong here in NA, not a lot of folks are actually any good at fight analytics/also try to lie to deflect blame. Nobody likes responsibility, so a lot of times PUGs will weasel about until someone gets blamed(usually incorrectly) and is either kicked or leaves. Also a lot of people just leave if a mistake causes a wipe on first pull, citing that the party is a trap and not worth their time(though most leave no comment and just dip).

But there's also plenty of times where we figure out what's wrong, and then correct for it, teaching someone in the process leading to success. Generally the first type of group I described explodes pretty early, within 1~5 pulls. The second type I describe might wipe for an entire lockout, but then go back in and win, and then start farming. I've personally had very good luck with the second type of group being what I find more often, though it might just be my memory discarding all of the bad parties I've joined, since they didn't last very long.

Generally, I think NA suffers from having a division when it comes to strategies employed. Over the years, many Youtubers have compiled strategies used by their personal groups to achieve victory. Some are safer/more consistent than others, while others seek to optimize DPS such that the fight ends as quickly as possible, making up for gear deficiency. This leads people to have not only preferred strategies, but preferred strategy makers. Other strategies develop inside the PUG community, that are commonly employed by PUGs who did the fight as early as possible. People join PFs only knowing one strat, and when the group isn't using it, a lot of people have problems adjusting, many even demanding that the other 7 people adopt the strategy they are comfortable with.

This rudeness is actually quite hilarious when one such person joins a static PF for a clear or reclear. Many NA do not read PFs, because reading might make them miss getting into the party... this extends through any type of content put into the PF. They look at the duty name only. So these types of people join, complain, cause problems, and then insult the group because they had the audacity to tell them where and how they're needed in the group's strategy.

It's a wonderful mess! (^-^)