Materia: the new Armory System

[Khal_Drogo]

remove the materia system simply

NORMALLY, I would agree with this kind of post. But, seriously, Lamerider, the materia system has a LOT of good. One of the worst aspects of this game when it first came out was the lack of character uniqueness. I LOVED gear swaps in XI cuz it was a way to "hide" what made you such a good thf/rdm/nin/blm or w/e (unless ppl were so desperate that they coordinated a /c at the right times lol).

Anyway, since there aren't gear swaps anymore, or at least not atm, materia is a GREAT way to bring about diversity. And with the upcoming "gear dye" system, or w/e it's called, not only will we all have different STAT'd gear, we'll actually have different LOOKING gear as well.

Variety, yes please

[Sol_Aureus]

NORMALLY, I would agree with this kind of post. But, seriously, Lamerider, the materia system has a LOT of good. One of the worst aspects of this game when it first came out was the lack of character uniqueness. I LOVED gear swaps in XI cuz it was a way to "hide" what made you such a good thf/rdm/nin/blm or w/e (unless ppl were so desperate that they coordinated a /c at the right times lol).

Anyway, since there aren't gear swaps anymore, or at least not atm, materia is a GREAT way to bring about diversity. And with the upcoming "gear dye" system, or w/e it's called, not only will we all have different STAT'd gear, we'll actually have different LOOKING gear as well.

Variety, yes please

While Variety is good, there are a lot of different ways to go about implementing it, but Materia causes way too many problems as it is right now. There are better ways to go about implementing variety without causing such an imbalance.

[Aviny]

I think when AF comes out all of this wont matter so yeah...

[Turtle]

This is an amazing idea. Also enjoyed your Valid point guyinterjections. It's too bad people can't discuss this sort of thing constructively instead of jumping to the "Your wrong.(end)" posts.

[Matsume]

This is an amazing idea. Also enjoyed your Valid point guyinterjections. It's too bad people can't discuss this sort of thing constructively instead of jumping to the "Your wrong.(end)" posts.

Actually Turtle, this thread has been discussed in a perfectly constructive fashion and in a rather civil manner. It's a shame other threads don't attract as much consideration as does this one.

[Sol_Aureus]

What's really unfortunate is that not many people seem to care about this issue. A lot of the forum-goers seem content complaining about the immediate (OMG WHY ISN'T PATCH 1.21 HERE YET) instead of discussing huge, long term problems that could really hinder the game. If people actually replied and discussed this to the point where it became a large enough thread to warrant attention, the devs could reanalyze the Materia system sooner, which would give them the most time to correct it. Otherwise, it'll become so integrated into the game that they won't modify/remove it, so the problems will persist.

[Brannigan]

Multiple melds are pretty much The Great Satan and are going to have to be phased out/controlled eventually. Otherwise u/u gear is going to have to have retarded stats on it, even if it was allowed 1 meld (because items that come from party play HAVE TO BE BETTER than what you can get with solo gambling otherwise the whole MMO thing falls apart). A slot system or restricting everything in the game to 1 would work fine.

I'm not saying u/u should be statted higher than those retarded triple+ melds, but it has to be able to beat doubles at the very least. Doubles are pretty easy to get and the only thing preventing me from going out and doubling all my gear is that I'd like to actually wear AF

[Khal_Drogo]

Multiple melds are pretty much The Great Satan and are going to have to be phased out/controlled eventually. Otherwise u/u gear is going to have to have retarded stats on it, even if it was allowed 1 meld (because items that come from party play HAVE TO BE BETTER than what you can get with solo gambling otherwise the whole MMO thing falls apart). A slot system or restricting everything in the game to 1 would work fine.

I'm not saying u/u should be statted higher than those retarded triple+ melds, but it has to be able to beat doubles at the very least. Doubles are pretty easy to get and the only thing preventing me from going out and doubling all my gear is that I'd like to actually wear AF

I'm sorry Brannigan, but I don't agree. I think you're letting the "materia advocates" get off way too easy. It is completely ridiculous to make crafting the "mainline" method of obtaining end game gear. We're not playing harvest moon, or rune factory, or legend of mana.

This is an MMO, and we should be relying on MASSIVE amounts of ppl to obtain the best items/gear, not the "skill" and prowess of one insignifcant crafter with a lot of luck....

[Antipika]

And why not both? Powerful U/U items should exists along with craftable gear with materia on it.

To make U/U more interesting, add special bonuses/effects that cannot be obtained through materia. Add also active abilities with cooldown that can only be used if you are wearing a specific U/U piece of gear. Then balance stats cap of all classes so players are forced to equip a mix of U/U items and crafted gear with materia in order to be able to cap everything.

That's how gear & itemization worked on DAoC, players had to own powerful U/U items AND, in order to cap all their major stats, were forced to have couple of crafted armor piece, enchanted with gems they wanted (basically the same system as the materia system we have).

Equipping only U/U items wouldn't work because you would overcap some stats, while some would remain uncapped. Equipping only crafted items with gems wouldn't work because bonus provided weren't high enough + no special abilities.

The key? The perfect mix between U/U and crafted items. Everyone was happy.

[Khal_Drogo]

My Response to Brannigan:

I'm sorry Brannigan, but I don't agree. I think you're letting the "materia advocates" get off way too easy. It is completely ridiculous to make crafting the "mainline" method of obtaining end game gear. We're not playing harvest moon, or rune factory, or legend of mana.

This is an MMO, and we should be relying on MASSIVE amounts of ppl to obtain the best items/gear, not the "skill" and prowess of one insignifcant crafter with a lot of luck....

Proposal:

And why not both? Powerful U/U items should exists along with craftable gear with materia on it.

To make U/U more interesting, add special bonuses/effects that cannot be obtained through materia. Add also active abilities with cooldown that can only be used if you are wearing a specific U/U piece of gear. Then balance stats cap of all classes so players are forced to equip a mix of U/U items and crafted gear with materia in order to be able to cap everything.

That's how gear & itemization worked on DAoC, players had to own powerful U/U items AND, in order to cap all their major stats, were forced to have couple of crafted armor piece, enchanted with gems they wanted (basically the same system as the materia system we have).

Equipping only U/U items wouldn't work because you would overcap some stats, while some would remain uncapped. Equipping only crafted items with gems wouldn't work because bonus provided weren't high enough + no special abilities.

The key? The perfect mix between U/U and crafted items. Everyone was happy.

I feel, slightly, compelled to agree, Antipika, but one major issue stands keeps me from doing so:

There isn't the ability to do gear swaps in this game.

It's nice to have "unique" buffs on U/U gear that cannot be attained through materia, but what good does that do you if the stats on the materia'd gear are so much more diverse? If you can't swap gear, what do you prefer, as a mrd for example:

Being pretty good at taking dmg and really great at dealing tremendous dmg (options available to you, via materia)? or being able to do a "Blood Bath" for let's say a 500% increase in effectiveness? Now, obviously, you'd say "both" (the former during party play; and the latter during solo play), right? But what separates you from every other mrd? I'll tell you:

More than likely, it's always gonna be your U/U gear, cuz w/ enough gil (in a materia-inclusive system), anyone can be as good as anyone else. And when you take away the "competition," you take away the fun, and that overwhelming sensation you get when you accomplish something that so many others failed to do. And if you remove U/U gear from the picture (in terms of it's application during party play), you remove the opportunity for "bragging rights," which is a core aspect of the MMO experience.

U/U gear, obtained from EXTREMELY difficult fights/quests/missions, or w/e else, is always going to be a more compelling incentive than getting enough gil to *buy* end game gear. It's a really depressing prospect.