I genuinely hate the new WAR animation.

[Shurrikhan]

To wrap this all up, even though I am pointing out that you don't know what you are talking about on this topic, that isn't necessarily a condemnation of you. The vast majority of people have little to no knowledge of the ins and outs of game development since most have no actual experience doing it. That's fine, to be expected and shouldn't be something to hold against somebody. At the same time, when you don't know about something you should act from a place that acknowledges that and takes that into account instead of trying to bluster your way through to a false sense of subject matter expertise.

Fair enough, but let's put this into a historical perspective:

When the devs said it would be impossible for PvP to include glamours, self-same subject matter experts quickly defended that... only for the devs to, under a small flood complaints, realize they actually could make glamours work in a cross-server setting.

When the devs said it would be impossible to code a one-handed glamour onto a two-handed weapon, and instead for a time provided two-handed versions of each previously 1-h primal weapon, "subject matter experts", levying similar detail to your post, defended... only for the devs again to, under pressure, figure out the problem and remedy it.

If the matter is truly impossible, it won't happen. Simple as that. But regardless of all the lengthy subject expertise to the defense of what was to many a less than acceptable status quo, things that were previously allegedly unfeasible to fix have already been fixed. Why then go to so much effort to mute complaints? The devs aren't generalizable resources, so what specific opportunity so offends you about anyone asking for a correction that would make, to them, an awful animation into a good one (and allow for others, past or potential, in a similar bind to do the same)?

It's not my job as a player to say whether the devs can or cannot, say, make Heavy Shot actually aim at my target (despite that other MMORPGs clearly manage this and other skills clearly already act about and towards a target's particular animation bone). I can still state how much I dislike that it doesn't and how much more I'd like it if it did. Just as I'd like this skill a whole lot more if the axe didn't just abruptly disappear, with neither an upward toss or back-sheathe as an excuse.

At present, even having carefully read through your posts, it still seems unlikely to me that there is anything to fundamentally prevent that, while I can imagine many an animation that would likely benefit from a similar allowance. You say I cannot know what holds them back, technically speaking, from having the axe do more than just vanish. Do you, though, know what would make it so unfeasible, either? If your point was merely that there are unknown costs and clearly they favored the lesser but more efficient option, we already know this. It means merely that we are among a group (those who'd be turned off by the axe simply disappearing) that they didn't feel was worth appeasing. Fair enough, so long as they measured that group correctly -- but I've no way of knowing that precisely, and have seen changes that seemed to over- or underestimate the size of one group or another. In the meantime, I'll use my voice as I see fit and complain about what, to me, is worthy of complaints (such as an ability that would otherwise look pretty cool instead just looking dumb af).

In regards to your old Holmgang yank animation bit, no it requires multiple reference locations, not just a single one.

You're conflating the total with what was suggested. What was suggested was an axe in the ground and, later, that a VFX act between that previously set position and the player (e.g., the opposite of Between the Lines, or like literally any ability --player or mob-- which spawns something in place which is later flung at the target). Every animation does something at or offset from the caster's position. All I am asking is that this particular skill also reference a singular, fixed position, as to pull the axe back to the warrior.

VFX and much of anything else being spawned into the game world needs an explicitly established point of origin, as is made obvious by the very mod(s) you bring up, or else you'll get an error and the thing won't spawn or, depending on the engine, it may just spawn the thing at the default world coordinates of x0,y0,z0. These points are almost always established through the placement and existence of a game entity/game object into the game world.

I just said the same. So what it is between my "VFX use an established point of origin" and yours that makes it impossible to leave an axe in the ground (as opposed to, say, red swirly mist, a patch of flame, or a Ley Lines)?

When something has to be spawned at an indeterminate time and location, such as would be the case of having an axe appear in the ground at the current location that the player is standing

How is that any more indeterminate than any other animation? Use, say, Chaos Thrust or Kasha on the move, and each VFX will spawn at the player's location despite those each being different locations in respect to the game world. The later animations don't have to lag behind you, each centered at the original snapshot location. At the same time though, other skills in this game clearly can do exactly that. So what's unique to this request that would make it unable to, in effect, do either?

that requires the game engine to dynamically generate a brand new entity/game object into the game world to mark the desired location and be used as a point of origin.

Which is so very different from Between the Lines, a function which acts about and uses as a point of origin what was a new entity/game object placed by a player skill at their then-present location?...

[TouchandFeel]

... even having carefully read through your posts...

While you say that or may feel that, it doesn't seem like you truly have or are failing to comprehend what I wrote. It seems like you are too busy flailing at shadows to rationally digest the content of my posts.

You keep claiming that I am declaring that the specific thing that you want is impossible. I said no such thing and said multiple times that it is absolutely possible from a technical standpoint, that the devs could implement it and even provided multiple examples of things in the game that show it is possible such as AoEs that are placed on the ground and the footsteps left behind when riding your chocobo mount.

Even your very first response to me quoted a snippet where I was saying it was possible.

So it's not at all a matter of them not being able to do it when it is a matter of the superficiality of the end result not justifying the cost of the means of achieving it, especially when there are other potential solutions that could give similar end results without such cost.

So it doesn't matter how many times you try to use examples of things not being impossible against me because I never even said that in the first place and said quite the opposite.
If you had actually read what I had said carefully like you claim, this would be obvious.

If your point was merely that there are unknown costs and clearly they favored the lesser but more efficient option, we already know this.

My point was that there was a very well known technical cost to that one specific suggestion of having the axe get stuck in the ground and that because of that known cost they would likely go with a different solution that would would avoid said cost if they were to address the primary concern of the axe just disappearing.
I was pointing out a consideration for one suggestion that would make it a less likely candidate that the devs would go with because based on the number of times that it was being mentioned, that consideration was not actually something that people knew.

It means merely that we are among a group (those who'd be turned off by the axe simply disappearing) that they didn't feel was worth appeasing.

I have never been against the devs addressing the feedback that the axe just disappearing looks bad. I was one of the very first people in this thread to say that very thing and provide a suggestion to address it.

... I think the axe just disappearing and then reappearing looks odd but I find the idea of a WAR just straight up punching something incredibly amusing.
Perhaps for the animation the WAR just shifts the axe to one hand and then punches with the other before spinning around with the axe to finish off the move. Basically keep the punching concept but rework the animation so the axe doesn't just pop out and then back in like that...

In the meantime, I'll use my voice as I see fit and complain about what, to me, is worthy of complaints (such as an ability that would otherwise look pretty cool instead just looking dumb af).

Please go ahead and voice your opinion, I have always supported people voicing their opinions even if I don't agree with them.
If you don't like something in the game, say so. If you disagree with someone, go ahead and present your counter-argument and if someone disagrees with you and has a differing opinion, they should make that known if they want too.
There is nothing wrong with any of that and I said as much in my first reply to you.

There is nothing wrong with presenting our ideas and feedback, questioning the devs or even pointing out where we feel they may have slipped up; but perhaps dialing back the condescension and snark is warranted.

As can be seen, my initial point of contention was not an opinion differing from mine but the unwarranted flippant condescension aimed at the dev team by someone who has zero sense of what it takes to make a game like this and the level of effort and passion required to do so.

It's easy to sit back behind your keyboard and say snarky stuff like ...

You'd think by late 2021 they'd have learned how to spawn a separate, not-player-relative doodad, with the axe just being yanked over as needed via an old Holmgang-like chain. But alas...

... as if the devs are too incompetent to do something that seems so simple to you, when in reality you have no knowledge or experience in the matter.

So I highly suggest you dial back the Dunning-Kruger and attitude if you want people to take you seriously and respect your opinions.

While you may feel that I am trying to shut down your opinion, please know that I am not and I want you to express publicly your issue in hopes that the devs see it and take it into consideration. I want that for everyone. You feel that having the axe get stuck in the ground would look cool and I agree it could definitely look cool. Practically though, I feel that the devs would be more likely to seek a different solution because of the technical consideration that I have talked about. If the devs decide that they will go with the suggestion of the axe being stuck in the ground despite that consideration, I am totally cool with that and would trust that they are comfortable with the bit of extra resources it would require. Mostly I would be happy that they listened to people saying that they didn't like the look of the axe just disappearing and made a change to make it look better one way or another.

That's all I really have to say on the matter and I don't think prolonging this kind of back and forth is doing anyone any favors, so I am just going to end it here. Ultimately I sincerely hope that you and I and everyone else ends up with a something that they can feel good about in regards to this animation and can appreciate how much the developers do for us to make and maintain this incredible game.

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How would you resolve the complaint? ...

In terms of the complaint of the axe just disappearing, a complaint that I agree with and voiced, I already provided a number of possible solutions previously in this thread that I feel are doable.

There is the one from my initial post that you even commented on in your earlier post.

I agree with both sentiments presented here.
Perhaps for the animation the WAR just shifts the axe to one hand and then punches with the other before spinning around with the axe to finish off the move. Basically keep the punching concept but rework the animation so the axe doesn't just pop out and then back in like that.

I was also the one that made the suggestion of having the WAR thrown the axe up into the air and later catching it.

If they were to go the route of adding something into the animation to show the axe leaving the WAR's hands and then returning, it would likely be something that would look less goofy when the player moves around such as something like the axe is thrown up into the air and then caught after throwing the punches.

Those are just a couple of animation changes that could be implemented to address the complaint that don't really incur any additional technical cost and I am sure that people could come up with plenty more animation ideas that would work.

One consideration, asides from potential additional technical costs for some ideas, is that we don't know for certain what the ability actually is, whether it is GCD or oGCD, an AoE or single-target so it is difficult to know for certain if a suggested animation would really fit or not.
Many believe that the punching indicates that it is an upgraded Upheaval or maybe a new ability that is an AoE equivalent and that seems plausible. Looking at the length of the animation, which is pretty long, that could point to it being a GCD ability, so maybe it is a new 3rd step in the AoE combo. We don't really know for sure and so a definitive answer is not really possible.

[Anahlise_Auhn_Giinslai]

In terms of the complaint of the axe just disappearing, a complaint that I agree with and voiced, I already provided a number of possible solutions previously in this thread that I feel are doable.

There is the one from my initial post that you even commented on in your earlier post.

I agree with both sentiments presented here.
Perhaps for the animation the WAR just shifts the axe to one hand and then punches with the other before spinning around with the axe to finish off the move. Basically keep the punching concept but rework the animation so the axe doesn't just pop out and then back in like that.

I was also the one that made the suggestion of having the WAR thrown the axe up into the air and later catching it.

If they were to go the route of adding something into the animation to show the axe leaving the WAR's hands and then returning, it would likely be something that would look less goofy when the player moves around such as something like the axe is thrown up into the air and then caught after throwing the punches.

Ah.. apologies. >.< To be honest, I had complete forgot that.. whom the original poster of the ideas were, I mean, as I have memory issues, and it was..
I had to go and check the time-stamps to verify, almost a month ago.

One consideration, asides from potential additional technical costs for some ideas, is that we don't know for certain what the ability actually is, whether it is GCD or oGCD, an AoE or single-target so it is difficult to know for certain if a suggested animation would really fit or not.
Many believe that the punching indicates that it is an upgraded Upheaval or maybe a new ability that is an AoE equivalent and that seems plausible. Looking at the length of the animation, which is pretty long, that could point to it being a GCD ability, so maybe it is a new 3rd step in the AoE combo. We don't really know for sure and so a definitive answer is not really possible.

And, on that scale... I hope that the action is not a trait upgrade, and is its own thing, hope that would not make a different action get deleted, but if it has to be a trait upgrade(ew), in order for another action to not be deleted, I would prefer that; as I would regard that option as the "lesser evil", and I hope that the action is a GCD action, as the animation is much too long, to fit as a oGCD action...
While.. on the other scale, whether or not the action is ST or AoE, does not matter to me all that much, since it would just dictate whether the action is not used much(AoE) or used often(ST), and when I look at the animation itself, I could with ease see it as a normal AoE action, or a ST with too much flair, since the game already has ST action animations that are as big as AoE animations.

[TouchandFeel]

Ah.. apologies. >.< To be honest, I had complete forgot that.. whom the original poster of the ideas were, I mean, as I have memory issues, and it was..
I had to go and check the time-stamps to verify, almost a month ago.

No problem and no apology needed. I just want to make sure that people know that I very much support there being a change to address the axe disappearing concern and that I have actively been providing suggestions on how it could potentially be dealt with since there seems to have been some confusion on that matter with some individuals.

While.. on the other scale, whether or not the action is ST or AoE, does not matter to me all that much, since it would just dictate whether the action is not used much(AoE) or used often(ST), and when I look at the animation itself, I could with ease see it as a normal AoE action, or a ST with too much flair, since the game already has ST action animations that are as big as AoE animations.

I too hope that it is a new ability and not just an upgrade that overwrites an existing one. WAR could definitely use a few more abilities in their kit to give them more to do. I kind of would like it to be an AoE version of Upheaval so that WAR has an offensive gauge dump in AoE situations. At the same time I also think that the animation is so long that it would look weird and get cut off constantly on an oGCD and that kind of then makes me want it to be a GCD ability too. Having a more complex AoE rotation is something that I want, so I could be happy with that as well. Not really much we can do but wait and see what it is and then decide if we like it or not.