DPS jobs lacking utility?

[Shurrikhan]

For this to happen dungeons would need to be more difficult, not for class/role expression to change.

I never argued within that example that such would require changes to "class/role expression" beyond merely tanks being capable of more than mere meat-tanking DPS-play with an auxiliary sequence of CDs thrown atop (at this point, with no effect on anything else in one's play).

But let's be clear: it would require both. Difficulty makes the gameplay loops relevant, largely by preventing you from (timely) clears without partaking in that gameplay, but its the game, its code, and its engine, themselves, that determine whether those gameplay loops are even possible.

No matter how punishing you make it not to do something, you cannot suddenly do what the game's engine isn't capable of doing. XIV allows only for a very poor imitation of precision; if it wanted to make the adjacent gameplay relevant, it'd need to be capable of that gameplay. It's not. There's reason Asmongold, for instance, received only pained chuckles and moans when he attempted to dodge out of range of enemy strikes between his swings with anything less than Sprint and an 10-yalm headstart.

[Raikai]

I agree that they would need to change both the player and the encounter fronts to make utilities more relevant, but as it is right now...

I feel that we could go with more of not dmg% up utilities, because those are just a pain to balance. We have a bunch of shielding or dmg reduction utilities (both party and enemy output) and those are fine, I think... they are very useful for savage fights and beyond.

But I feel that we could go with more niche utilities. Something that is not especially useful all the time, but when you find an opportunity to gain advantage of, it feels great. None of those are directly boosting damage, and we have a few examples ingame already:
- Holy's stun
- En Avant and Repelling Shot (not adding RDM's or the other gap closers because they play a very specific purpose)
- Curing Waltz, Vercure and Everlasting Flight
- Mantra and Improvisation
- Aetherial Manipulation and Rescue (Though I'd argue that in both cases, the responsivity makes it way harder to use in practice)
- Shukuchi

It's situationally good. A dancer is fully mobile and you don't - need - En Avant, as you probably know when to get close to the target to use the dances, but feels nice to apply it just to get out of an AoE beforehand.

[Taranok]

There is no situation after Lv45 (when they switch to INT-only gear) where casting it will change the number of times the enemy has to hit someone to kill them, so no, they don't have a heal.

Now now, there is a situation where it will add + 1. Once in a blue moon, maybe.

Honestly I really don't understand why Summoner has Physick, except to give them a wombo combo in Bozja due to qualifying for a certain deep essence.

[Raikai]

Now now, there is a situation where it will add + 1. Once in a blue moon, maybe.

Honestly I really don't understand why Summoner has Physick, except to give them a wombo combo in Bozja due to qualifying for a certain deep essence.

I feel that Physick scaling with MND instead of INT is a relic from the pre-SMN levels and more a code-related issue. It can't possibly be an overlook.

I wonder if the only way to "fix" it would be adding a pre-SCH healer class (Academician anyone?) but at the same time, I dunno if they would want to invest resources into a lesser issue.

[Gruntler]

I feel that Physick scaling with MND instead of INT is a relic from the pre-SMN levels and more a code-related issue. It can't possibly be an overlook.

I wonder if the only way to "fix" it would be adding a pre-SCH healer class (Academician anyone?) but at the same time, I dunno if they would want to invest resources into a lesser issue.

It's not a code-related issue, it's a flavor thing. Arcanists have the spell, so Summoners continue to have it. But Summoners aren't good at it. If they were, they'd have to take a hit somewhere else like how RDM does.

[DPZ2]

Now now, there is a situation where it will add + 1. Once in a blue moon, maybe.

Honestly I really don't understand why Summoner has Physick, except to give them a wombo combo in Bozja due to qualifying for a certain deep essence.

I dunno. The last run of Copperbell Mines I ran as a level 50 SMN required me to (a) rez the tank (b) heal myself and the surviving DPS (c) heal the tank and (d) DPS down the boss. In that order. Fun times.

[Raikai]

It's not a code-related issue, it's a flavor thing. Arcanists have the spell, so Summoners continue to have it. But Summoners aren't good at it. If they were, they'd have to take a hit somewhere else like how RDM does.

It can't possibly be "flavor"... If it's something meant only for the class ACN, then why it's available action to use as a SMN if it has zero usability? Especially after an expansion where they trimmed a lot of "useless" spells...

[Titania40]

To be honest, I keep forgetting about things like Feint. I set them up in easy to use hotbar keybinds, then forget it's even there. And half the time I forget about buffs like True North. When playing dancer, I tend not to use Shield Samba in part because I forgot about it, and in part because I don't recognize "oh, this is a good time for that ability". I'm too busy focusing on positioning, avoiding aoes, and what attacks are available due to procs.

[Rongway]

I wonder if the only way to "fix" it would be adding a pre-SCH healer class (Academician anyone?)

This is unnecessary. Scholar is already effectively a classless job in its mechanical implementation (just look at their Actions window). It just needs a final separation from Arcanist. Require ACN30 to unlock it, have new scholars start at SCH30, level SCH separately from ACN/SMN, and grandfather everyone in with their initial SCH level matching their ACN level.

This of course would do nothing to address SMN's Physick being useless once they move to INT-specific gear; but it's nonetheless a change that would be very easy for the devs to make without unnecessarily introducing a new class.

[wereotter]

It's not a code-related issue, it's a flavor thing. Arcanists have the spell, so Summoners continue to have it. But Summoners aren't good at it. If they were, they'd have to take a hit somewhere else like how RDM does.

At this point, though, the Physick spell that SCH uses isn't the same one as SMN. If you look at the skill list on SCH, the only skill at this point that they share with SMN and take from arcanist is resurrection. Every other skill is a SCH specific version. At this point the fact it continues to scale off mind on SMN is completely intentional. Plus I think most SMN players wouldn't want the punishment that would come to their damage by having an actually potent heal. If SMN had it, there would be little difference between it and RDM which would require a substantial nerf to the SMN damage.

This is unnecessary. Scholar is already effectively a classless job in its mechanical implementation (just look at their Actions window). It just needs a final separation from Arcanist. Require ACN30 to unlock it, have new scholars start at SCH30, level SCH separately from ACN/SMN, and grandfather everyone in with their initial SCH level matching their ACN level.

I do think this is coming in the future (saw your comment after writing my own) I think the devs really want to split up the jobs. Can see them making SCH eventually a stand alone job that you can just unlock once you get any job to level 30. The only reason the two jobs level together is because of the experiment of having branching jobs, but if they choose to spin off SCH entirely there's no reason for them to continue to have the two level at the same time.