DPS jobs lacking utility?

[ItMe]

My intent was more to show that

• Payadoya isn't wrong to think that there's a correlation between trinity-centric design and shallowed out party play. Historically, there is. More so than in generalist (less trinity-based) games.

He isn't wrong to think that, but he isn't right to think that either.
You say historically there is a correlation.
I say there isn't.
Unless one of us makes an impossible comprehensive master list of RPGs with and without a trinity system and sort them by which are "shallow," I don't think we can go any further with this part of our conversation.
You must have simply played more games where this is the case, where as I must have simply played more where it is not.

Or, in a very basic example pertinent to tanking, mobs' auto-attacks having a seemingly accurate range and their skills checking range at time of (would-be) release instead of via early snapshot, so you can better judge distances for kiting, and all the stringing, microkiting, or kite-cycling you can do as a result, ideally in an environment tuned as to make those feel like distinct and deliberate choices.

For this to happen dungeons would need to be more difficult, not for class/role expression to change.
Despite the awkward snap shoting we can still kite and avoid auto attacks, and I often do in Deep Dungeons where something like that is relevant.

[Shurrikhan]

For this to happen dungeons would need to be more difficult, not for class/role expression to change.

I never argued within that example that such would require changes to "class/role expression" beyond merely tanks being capable of more than mere meat-tanking DPS-play with an auxiliary sequence of CDs thrown atop (at this point, with no effect on anything else in one's play).

But let's be clear: it would require both. Difficulty makes the gameplay loops relevant, largely by preventing you from (timely) clears without partaking in that gameplay, but its the game, its code, and its engine, themselves, that determine whether those gameplay loops are even possible.

No matter how punishing you make it not to do something, you cannot suddenly do what the game's engine isn't capable of doing. XIV allows only for a very poor imitation of precision; if it wanted to make the adjacent gameplay relevant, it'd need to be capable of that gameplay. It's not. There's reason Asmongold, for instance, received only pained chuckles and moans when he attempted to dodge out of range of enemy strikes between his swings with anything less than Sprint and an 10-yalm headstart.