TheLazyPeon "gives FFXIV another try"

[Cebo]

The biggest problem for most new players, including TheLazyPeon in his past attempt, is the 2.0 - 2.5 ARR slog. Past WoW friends I tried to introduce to the game couldn't get past how boring that was, and even when they get to Heavensward, they're already burnt out from all the cutscenes/dialogue. The regular ARR main story, while dull, goes by quickly, and your character is progressing throughout in levels, abilities, etc. Even WoW veterans can grind through it. But the 80 quests that are required post-ARR is the biggest roadblock, since there is zero progression, and you're literally just teleporting from location to location to get through dialogue/cutscenes. SE honestly did not trim enough fat here.

Those who argue it lays the foundation and is necessary for world-building really oversell it. Things like Good King Moogle Mog, Leviathan/Ramuh, the Ivy's subterfuge etc. could all have been on the chopping block (ie. moved to sidequests), without much loss to the primary narrative. They could easily just trim it down to the Monetarists subplot, the Doma refugees/Yugiri's arrival and Alphi establishing the Crystal Braves, and move right on to Lady Iceheart and Moenbryda's arrival. Hell, even the Monetarists, while critical for 2.55's conclusion, is basically a footnote for the rest of the game, so even that's scrapped in later expansions. Unlike later expansions where the post-HW, post-SB, and post-ShB quests continue the narrative from x.0 - x.3, and have their big moments...ARR's 2.0 - 2.3 is the definition of filler content.

[RyuDragnier]

Those who argue it lays the foundation and is necessary for world-building really oversell it. Things like Good King Moogle Mog, Leviathan/Ramuh, the Ivy's subterfuge etc. could all have been on the chopping block (ie. moved to sidequests), without much loss to the primary narrative. They could easily just trim it down to the Monetarists subplot, the Doma refugees/Yugiri's arrival and Alphi establishing the Crystal Braves, and move right on to Lady Iceheart and Moenbryda's arrival. Hell, even the Monetarists, while critical for 2.55's conclusion, is basically a footnote for the rest of the game, so even that's scrapped in later expansions. Unlike later expansions where the post-HW, post-SB, and post-ShB quests continue the narrative from x.0 - x.3, and have their big moments...ARR's 2.0 - 2.3 is the definition of filler content.

Incorrect. Going to point this out in a block to avoid spoilers for others, because this is spoilers for the entirety of the game.

Good King Mog hinted at how Primal summoning works, that it makes what you BELIEVE come to life, not the actual individual, which we find out in HW. Leviathan showed that the Echo allows body hopping, hinting strongly at how connected it is to the Ascians and what somebody could possibly do with it. Ramuh hinted that things are not as black and white as we think, and that light and dark are two sides of the same coin. Ivy's subterfuge was a warning not to trust those close to us so easily, something that hit us hard with the betrayal by the Crystal Braves, and much later with Misija's betrayal in Save the Queen.

Everything is foreshadowing future events and knowledge, so it is all important to the plot in the grand scheme of things.

[Fyrebrand]

But where are the eels?

Mother Miounne baked them all into pies.

Everything is foreshadowing future events and knowledge, so it is all important to the plot in the grand scheme of things.

Excellent comment! I'd thought to point out that bit about the Leviathan chapter, but forgot to. Removing content from main-line MSQ and demoting it to "side-quests" means it's no longer established canon. Therefore, they can't really reference concepts in those chapters for future story beats, because they don't know if the player has done it or not. Plus, the quests for those primal battles aren't terribly long in the grand scheme of things, and if players feel like there's already too much "blah blah" without any action, removing combat encounters doesn't seem like a good remedy.

As somebody who's come and gone from the game multiple times over the years since ARR came out, and actually restarted the game from scratch a few times, I totally get the "slog" factor. I felt it a bit this time around at parts. But I remember clearly, the first time I played through post-vanilla Level 50 content, I thought it was incredible! It's so much better and more polished than the ARR leveling quests, there's tons more voiced dialogue, you're wondering where the story is going to go after you've defeated the Garlean occupation efforts. Every little plot thread feels important, like it could be a launchpad for future adventures.

Unpopular opinion, but I actually feel like all the Level 50 dungeons they give you should have been mandatory MSQ content, because they are actually really well made, and fun to do at least once. Also, the Crystal Tower absolutely blew my mind the first time through! To skip that would be a real shame, as it's quite a spectacle.

[Jojoya]

Or The Lazy Peon could just accept that he personally doesn't enjoy the FFXIV game style and let it go at that.

It's okay not to like the game. It's not going to be right for everyone.

But he should have left it at "I don't like the game" the first time around instead of going down the "this game is total trash" route.

What he does and doesn't like won't change overnight. He's doing this solely for the views so why care?

Unpopular opinion, but I actually feel like all the Level 50 dungeons they give you should have been mandatory MSQ content, because they are actually really well made, and fun to do at least once. Also, the Crystal Tower absolutely blew my mind the first time through! To skip that would be a real shame, as it's quite a spectacle.

Sounds like a better reason to leave them out of MSQ. Things made mandatory can have some of the fun factor taken away because you *must* do them. We tend to put up mental obstacles once the choice to do something is taken away from us.

[TaleraRistain]

Everything is foreshadowing future events and knowledge, so it is all important to the plot in the grand scheme of things.

Exactly. There are people who would have stuck a certain event involving Alisaie into "sidequest" territory in the past, and now we find out how absolutely crucial to the plot it's become.

To be fair, there's a lot of padding in the expansions as well, even in our beloved Shadowbringers (eg. trolley/golem subplot in Amh Araeng).

How is that padding? It directly relates to how you get to an MSQ dungeon.

[AnotherPerson]

Incorrect. Going to point this out in a block to avoid spoilers for others, because this is spoilers for the entirety of the game.

Good King Mog hinted at how Primal summoning works, that it makes what you BELIEVE come to life, not the actual individual, which we find out in HW. Leviathan showed that the Echo allows body hopping, hinting strongly at how connected it is to the Ascians and what somebody could possibly do with it. Ramuh hinted that things are not as black and white as we think, and that light and dark are two sides of the same coin. Ivy's subterfuge was a warning not to trust those close to us so easily, something that hit us hard with the betrayal by the Crystal Braves, and much later with Misija's betrayal in Save the Queen.

Everything is foreshadowing future events and knowledge, so it is all important to the plot in the grand scheme of things.

I agree with ya heavily. ARR does a lot of buildup in subtle nuances if you can pick them up that becomes very integral to the storytelling in the long run.

Running through the ARR MSQ again for the third time, there's a lot of MSQ they did trim out that was comedic / entertaining and for atmosphere buildup - if only to simplify the experience and make it less of a 'slog'. There's a lot taken away that did make the experience a lot smoother, but it's also true that some of these quests served as a way to immerse yourself into the adventure, which made it feel less of a grind if you're actually just playing the story for the first time to enjoy the journey.

The problem is that people are told about the HYPE that is Heavensward, and they're so focused on Heavensward that they are no longer immersing themselves into the story since they just want to "skip" this part and go to Heavensward, the 'good' part.

A lot of people have to remember that ARR post patches (2.1 to 2.55) was not made in a day. To go through the story as if you are supposed to rush the quests quickly will only burn you out faster than ever since they're supposed to be done over a significantly longer period of time.