Why is there still no good solution to the housing shortage?

[Seraphor]

This is another good point! Instanced houses can still have external fixtures. Having less houses to load is one steap towards increasing the space limit for furnishing outside.

Instanced houses with external features... isn't that what we have now?

When people say 'instanced houses', what they generally mean is one universal teleport that sends you to your personal/specific players own little instance. This instance would presumably be a small external zone to show off the garden, which leads to an internal housing system like what we have.

You lose the wards, but you double up on all of the individual instances, because instead of just having indoors, you now have indoors and outdoors.
So how would this actually solve anything? just as many instances (if not more), just as much server strain (if not more).

Well these 'instances' would be Duties, just like Eureka/Bozja, so that they are temporary instances which are only loaded by the servers when they're needed, when accessed.
This means:
- Duty queues to access your house, and if we get a repeat of Raubahn EX, you'll have to queue up to enter your own house.
- No queuing for Duties when in your house/garden, because you're already in one.
- Time limit on how long you can stay in your house, just like Eureka/Bozja, because you can't have everyone hogging up all the duty allocations by camping inside their houses 24/7.

This is what you're asking for when you ask for instanced housing in FFXIV. Just so you know.

[Shougun]

This is what you're asking for when you ask for instanced housing in FFXIV. Just so you know.

No it's not, if someone wants a new system they want a new system. Of course FFXIV can say "impossibru" but that doesn't mean they asked for something else.

There are plenty of examples of instanced housing where you don't have all the issues you listed, people are saying "figure it out". Clearly what people are asking is not what you said, and I think it a bit off putting and perhaps a fallacy to suggest that's what people are asking for when they're clearly not. You might say "this is what is likely to happen given current system limitations" but /obviously/ people are saying "fix the limitations, make it work". They are NOT asking for what you said, to say that is incorrect- to say they might get what you said .. well that's entirely possible. There are many clear examples of the system working perfectly well, it's not some figment of an imagination on what an instanced housing system would look like as we've many examples and when reading people's posts it's clear what they're looking for. There are no smoke and mirrors, if someone had a pikachu face "ooops" because they did what you suggested and were shocked people were upset it's because they weren't paying attention (or of course determine what players want impossible and so they do a compromise, but players are allowed to say "I don't want the comprise, I want this, this is what I said, this is what I want"... and of course dev players may say "I'm not doing that" lol).

Alternatively to counter your point on timers and such, we've plenty of instanced spaces to the player that you CAN queue for duty and there is not a timer (like the garrison or inns, or the current internals of houses, naturally most of those spaces don't get customized- but example where such a system exists in the game that doesn't require what you said people are asking for when they clearly didn't).

Naturally if the company says can't be done it makes it more of a pipe dream, but we've numerous items that couldn't be done at one point but were later do-able (or sometimes it might be a strong notice into the future). As personally I've limited hope for the current game will change, I think the Sanctuary is meant to be a way to alleviate some of the desires for players, and so I mostly comment as a future "next mmo, don't use this exact system- it's not great". I comment for the idea of 5-10 years in the future in another world, to not see this system done as it was done.

As for instanced part- you'd have an instanced internal (house), external would be ideal (so let's say garden space), but a ward user would still have a physical address. Such a concept can be seen in beautiful action in the movie Howel's Moving Castle, or less pretty but basically the same via the flower girl quest in FFXI (for your mog room). Some people's idea was phasing where your house is represented in the physical space with other houses loaded in the other nodes. Phasing can be both cool and painful though, can see WoW where it worked well and not so well. There are multiple ways to go about it. Of course you can keep the same system that requires people to settle, lack of creativity, etc, but.. ew? Obviously imo, but in general the system gets a "ew" / 10 (with the objects themselves generally being pretty cool, some of the people who go dozen hour plus on designs have shown real creativity).

[Rofel]

You lose the wards, but you double up on all of the individual instances

(...)

This is what you're asking for when you ask for instanced housing in FFXIV. Just so you know.

That's not what I'm asking because this is not how it works. Do you get in a queue to enter an FC room or personal apartment? It would be the same principle.

Also, these instances can be shared, the same way they already are on some internal spaces in game. I gotta thank Shougun for answering better than I could, even giving an idea of how it could work if implemented.

[Seraphor]

That's not what I'm asking because this is not how it works. Do you get in a queue to enter an FC room or personal apartment? It's the same principle.

Also, these instances can be shared, the same way they already are on some internal spaces in game. I gotta thanks Shougun for answering better than I could, even giving an idea of how it could work if implemented.

I'm saying, if you want instanced housing that functions like housing already does... that's not going to relieve any strain on the servers, and housing will still have to be limited.
The only way to do that, the only way to make unlimited housing plots, is to make 'instanced housing' via temporary instances, i.e. Duties.

What you're asking for is impossible.

If you keep calling for 'instanced housing', and 'unlimited plots', and everyone getting access to their own plot of land by default... what you will get is duties you have to queue up to enter.
or it just won't happen at all because they know it'll go down like a lead balloon.

[Shougun]

I'm saying, if you want instanced housing that functions like housing already does... that's not going to relieve any strain on the servers, and housing will still have to be limited.
The only way to do that, the only way to make unlimited housing plots, is to make 'instanced housing' via temporary instances, i.e. Duties.

What you're asking for is impossible.

When someone asks for a job do you respond with "can't that doesn't exist!"

Like.. "of course it doesn't..." lol.. "I'm asking for it TO Exist".

What you're saying is under our current understanding of the game it can't happen. Well.. ... ... obviously..... That's the point of the request. Make it happen. "But it can't" well it clearly can, at least in other games, we know this system it has happened -many- times. "It can't happen in FFXIV" obviously it doesn't right now (or it may be so impractical for them that it really does feel like impossible), but are you god of all things future (in which case, give me an idol so I can praise you.. :3)? Is it for you to decide what SE can and can't do for all time? Even then, if it doesn't happen now can you not imagine some people just never want to see the system again?

I'd love to see a Reaper job.
"Cant we don't have the lore for it, there is no reaper in the game and there will never be a reaper in the game it just doesn't work"
Thank you, I can tell for myself that it's not in the game yet- I'm asking for it 'to be in the game'. Honestly though this back and forth I did see on such a job as well, many people saying it's not possible for reasons they were clearly wrong about.

Clearly a housing system is far more complicated, to the point it would likely cost SE not multiple thousands but far far more, as I said I've limited expectations they would bother with the work to do it here, but I certainly wish it was and or at least done from the beginning in the next system. As this is one of the worst housing 'systems' I've seen in a well received/'popular MMO' (though I imagine their vision would have worked better if it was FC only, which was their original intention).

[Gabadabs]

I'm saying, if you want instanced housing that functions like housing already does... that's not going to relieve any strain on the servers, and housing will still have to be limited.
The only way to do that, the only way to make unlimited housing plots, is to make 'instanced housing' via temporary instances, i.e. Duties.

What you're asking for is impossible.

If you keep calling for 'instanced housing', and 'unlimited plots', and everyone getting access to their own plot of land by default... what you will get is duties you have to queue up to enter.
or it just won't happen at all because they know it'll go down like a lead balloon.

Honestly, a short queue to make it so everyone can have access to their own instanced plot of land would be far preferable to me than the current solution.

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

That's not what I'm asking because this is not how it works. Do you get in a queue to enter an FC room or personal apartment? It's the same principle.

Also, these instances can be shared, the same way they already are on some internal spaces in game. I gotta thans Shougun for answering better than I could, even giving an idea of how it could work if implemented.

It actually is how it works.

Wards are persistent loaded instances which contain all the data because the server I/O load is within an exact, controllable expected value (because the wards have a finite number of houses), hence why you don't get any queues when you want to go to your house.

Loading persistent housing data for every single player who would ever buy a house is a titanic server I/O load, meaning it would 100% be relegated to the instance server if they were to ever implement it. Which would cause everything in Seraphor's post to be true.

When someone asks for a job do you respond with "can't that doesn't exist!"

Like.. "of course it doesn't..." lol.. "I'm asking for it TO Exist".

No, but as someone who's done actual coding projects before, I've had to tell Clients what they desire is basically infeasible without having to do giant re-writes of the foundational code they stuck me with, or have to effectively explain why certain systems they've implemented clash with each other and basically render systems they desire to implement infeasible.

What you're saying is under our current understanding of the game it can't happen. Well.. ... ... obviously..... That's the point of the request. Make it happen. "But it can't" well it clearly can, at least in other games, we know this system it has happened -many- times. "It can't happen in FFXIV" obviously it doesn't right now, but are you god of all things future? Even then, if it doesn't happen now can you not imagine some people just never want to see the system again?

Just because one project can do it doesn't mean another can do it. Or at the very least, in a way you desire it to be so.

FF14 uses the instance server for handling instances. it doesn't take a 3000 IQ to realize that any form of 'unlimited, truly instanced' housing will have to use the instance server to handle it, which causes every problem Seraphor mentioned to become true. People can request it all they like; from a technical standpoint, its infeasible to create Instanced housing without basically gutting content development for a patch cycle or two to re-write giant swathes of the game's instance coding. And since it'd actually halt content develpment...it actually is impossible. You think the CEOs at Square will think Yoshi-P is in his right mind to halt content production for an issue like this?

$$$ talks. And the money is far away from housing. People can request anything they like; but they should also be realistic in their expectations. Hence why people like me & Seraphor explain it how it is to temper those expectations.

[Rofel]

I'm saying, if you want instanced housing that functions like housing already does... that's not going to relieve any strain on the servers, and housing will still have to be limited.
The only way to do that, the only way to make unlimited housing plots, is to make 'instanced housing' via temporary instances, i.e. Duties.

What you're asking for is impossible.

If you keep calling for 'instanced housing', and 'unlimited plots', and everyone getting access to their own plot of land by default... what you will get is duties you have to queue up to enter.
or it just won't happen at all because they know it'll go down like a lead balloon.

So far, no one asked for unlimited plots. The point is making it more available.

We already have, in game, a lot internal spaces sharing the same instance in the form of apartments and FC rooms, available to use right now. What I was proposing on my first post was to use the system already in use to make these rooms more desirable, since it's easier to implement with stuff we already have.

The second post was a follow up to the suggestion on what could be done to the exterior fixtures. You are fixed on the idea that each yard would be it's own instance, when, again, it doesn't need to be like this because we already have internal spaces sharing instances, with way more furniture than yards, right now.

It could be my wording, since you and Daeriion got I was asking for unlimited stuff loading at the same when it wasn't the case, so you'll have to forgive me.

[Seraphor]

When someone asks for a job do you respond with "can't that doesn't exist!"
...

This isn't about asking for a certain creative product. This isn't a design, or a piece of music, or concept in lore.
This is about server limitations. Things that are directly tied to the real world, and have real, physical limitations.

The current housing system is limited, precisely because of it's format hogging server space. Server space is physical space, located in silicone chips, requiring power to run, and money to buy.
Current housing "instances" are essentially always preloaded, because anyone can transition into that zone at any time, just like all the world zones, all the city states, etc. And they are always the same exact zone, player A entering house B will enter the same house B as player C when they enter it.
Thus there is a finite amount of these zones they can have available at any moment in time, restricted by the physical properties of the servers.
This is why expanding the number of wards, and thus the number of housing zones (one for each house, and each FC room, and each apartment) comes with the requirement of them buying and running more servers dedicated to doing so.
More instances = more servers = more money = limited instances.

Then there are the instance servers. A bunch of servers that solely deal with loading temporary instances or duties. These are used to run dungeons, trials, raids, and also Bozja, Eureka, etc. These are used precisely in this way because these are all individually unique zones, one instance of Aurum Vale is completely different to the next instance of Aurum Vale. These are only loaded when the server request they get loaded. Thus they can have all of these dungeons and trials and raids and Bozja/Eureka zones loading up and dropping off.
An infinite rolling wave of unique instances.
These servers are set up to sustain a certain number of these instances at any one time, which is usually more than enough to deal with the traffic the game gets, but occasionally you see it struggling, like now, when you try to queue in to a duty and get the 'reserving server' loading bar.

So even if "instance housing" was made like duty instances, it would still likely require the addition of new servers, instance servers rather than the regular zone/world servers, but it would be the only way of getting the infinite housing instances required to give everyone their own personal plot without having to have every players own plot constantly loaded up by the servers 24/7

[Seraphor]

So far, no one asked for unlimited plots. The point is making it more available.

Whenever someone asks for instanced housing so that everyone can automatically get access to their own personal plot, reserved especially for them, then yes, that's exactly what they're asking for.
Hundreds of people have been asking for this for years.