What is your biggest wish for endwalker that you know probably won't happen?

[KizuyaKatogami]

Looks like the Garlean/Ascian/Zodiark apologist trio is out in force this morning.

Anyway.

Back to the topic of wishes for EW that probably won’t happen: I wish they would shakeup the same predictable progression/patch schedule. I thought they said that ShB was going to be done different than what we had before, but it ended up being more of the same. Not sure what they would do instead though and I feel like they’ve settled for the same thing to happen every single x.1, x.2, etc. patch.

I also hope they balance the jobs well enough without erasing their identities. I liked how most of the jobs felt in ShB. MCH got a much needed and appreciated rework and was fun to play for once, and they removed the dark arts button from DRK which felt more like an added annoyance rather than “engaging gameplay”, but BRD had a new identity crisis and other jobs lost complexity in their tool kit that wasn’t as much of a gate keeping hindrance like MCH was. The trade off was that every job was viable in the meta, and I hope that at least carries over to EW and we don’t go back to the dark days of specific jobs being exiled from most savage runs.

Well what we’re discussing is a part of the topic at hand. If you look back and read you’ll see how it started. Anyhow, in response to your how shb was different than before, technically it was. The post patches were much more rushed

[SpanishInkwehsitor]

We must have played different expansions then. Lots of people died. The caravan guy, Tesleen, Vauthry, the Warriors of Darkness, Emet-Selch... Who decides who's worthy enough to be counted?

It's not like I don't agree with some of your points but you're essentially saying the story is less meaningful because not enough main characters died, which is a smack in the face to the writer(s) who, according to many, delivered the most memorable FF story in recent memory, let alone for MMOs in general.

And you're reducing all that to 'but my least favourite characters didn't die therefore it's bad'. Again, that's too edgy for me. Characters dying does not a good story make.

Didn’t like half the Scions die in ARR? Except the elf twins, Mr. Thou, and Cat Lady with 7 lives left.

[Bacent]

Chocobo boots

[Payadopa]

FFXIV encases most of its cast in plot armour and that, unfortunately, leads to stagnation as far as I'm concerned.

Again, it's not that I don't agree with some points and yet just because the 'right' person didn't die doesn't automatically mean it's bad, especially when the general consensus is the opposite. And all I'm hearing is 'X should have died because it's a dark story.' Isn't that in itself a trope? But then again I'm not a big fan of labelling everything tropes because everything ever written is one at this point in time. And it's also the same 5 or 6 stories regurgitated ad nauseam since millennia just with different names. I will agree with the plot armour thing, though.

[Unholychinchilla]

Well what we’re discussing is a part of the topic at hand. If you look back and read you’ll see how it started. Anyhow, in response to your how shb was different than before, technically it was. The post patches were much more rushed

It's a discussion spawned from one on topic post and people arguing over it. It's a bit irritating to come to a thread interested in seeing features or improvements people would like to see and the bulk of posts being the billionth iteration of the same argument we've been seeing for two years or so now.

It's not that I don't see where people are coming from but it's drowning everything else in the thread so probably belongs in a separate thread if people want to discuss it further.

[MicahZerrshia]

Again, it's not that I don't agree with some points and yet just because the 'right' person didn't die doesn't automatically mean it's bad, especially when the general consensus is the opposite. And all I'm hearing is 'X should have died because it's a dark story.' Isn't that in itself a trope? But then again I'm not a big fan of labelling everything tropes because everything ever written is one at this point in time. And it's also the same 5 or 6 stories regurgitated ad nauseam since millennia just with different names. I will agree with the plot armour thing, though.

I think what he is saying is that because they have established that no matter how great of a threat we are facing, we know that the main cast is going to come out clean it takes away from the story. And to be fair it does. It removes all tension and doesn't give you that moment where you unconsciously hold your breath because you are actually scared you may lose a character you love. Antagonists get disposed of all the time and that is another thing, we know that eventually the big bads, esp the sympathetic ones, are going down or changing sides.

If they would have off'd one or two of the main scions in a meaningful way it would add some much needed tension back into the story because we would not know from patch to patch if someone was actually going to face the consequences of their actions, which makes a story more thrilling in a way. Sure they offed a few characters, but we barely knew them or they were just completely faceless which still takes away the tension.

It's like playing a game with god mode on. You may have a little fun running through, destroying anything and everything in your path without having to worry about anything, but that also takes a lot of the fun, the thrill and the enjoyment out of a game. When a writer or writers turn god mode on for a character it does the same thing. You may enjoy the story but it completely removes a lot of the thrill and makes anything and everything they do somewhat meaningless.

Think about it this way. We had a powerful dude, who could destroy worlds and manipulate the life stream like it was a stream in his back yard, who could easily swat the scions aside with a snap of his fingers and yet, even when it came to the final showdown, when he had the upper hand, he attacked them and missed every single time. In fact they were so well off after that battle with this demi-god they were able to swim their way across an entire ocean and crawl up right off the coast of a major city. Now if they would have established that the scions were mortal, they could be killed, think of how dramatic that scene would have been knowing that not all of the scions were going to be safe, compared to how it was. Did they need to kill anyone in that showdown? No. But the knowledge that they could be, is what matters the most. It gives you that moment where you hold your breath, your heart begins to race and you feel real genuine fear and panic, which is just as important in this sort of story as the feelings of relief and joy you get from other situations.

That is why covering your main cast in plot armor is so terrible and a crutch for so many writers. It takes away more than it gives.

[KizuyaKatogami]

It's a discussion spawned from one on topic post and people arguing over it. It's a bit irritating to come to a thread interested in seeing features or improvements people would like to see and the bulk of posts being the billionth iteration of the same argument we've been seeing for two years or so now.

It's not that I don't see where people are coming from but it's drowning everything else in the thread so probably belongs in a separate thread if people want to discuss it further.

Well to be fair, this is a discussion thread. Quote replies are a thing so that nothing is really drowned out as long as you use that function. In the end though the topic of discussion is in lines with what we are discussing, it was simply a branch of that, of which someone started. This happens all the time in discussion threads and i don’t see much wrong with it. It gets people talking at least

[Lauront]

I think what he is saying is that because they have established that no matter how great of a threat we are facing, we know that the main cast is going to come out clean it takes away from the story. And to be fair it does. It removes all tension and doesn't give you that moment where you unconsciously hold your breath because you are actually scared you may lose a character you love. Antagonists get disposed of all the time and that is another thing, we know that eventually the big bads, esp the sympathetic ones, are going down or changing sides.

If they would have off'd one or two of the main scions in a meaningful way it would add some much needed tension back into the story because we would not know from patch to patch if someone was actually going to face the consequences of their actions, which makes a story more thrilling in a way. Sure they offed a few characters, but we barely knew them or they were just completely faceless which still takes away the tension.

It's like playing a game with god mode on. You may have a little fun running through, destroying anything and everything in your path without having to worry about anything, but that also takes a lot of the fun, the thrill and the enjoyment out of a game. When a writer or writers turn god mode on for a character it does the same thing. You may enjoy the story but it completely removes a lot of the thrill and makes anything and everything they do somewhat meaningless.

Think about it this way. We had a powerful dude, who could destroy worlds and manipulate the life stream like it was a stream in his back yard, who could easily swat the scions aside with a snap of his fingers and yet, even when it came to the final showdown, when he had the upper hand, he attacked them and missed every single time. In fact they were so well off after that battle with this demi-god they were able to swim their way across an entire ocean and crawl up right off the coast of a major city. Now if they would have established that the scions were mortal, they could be killed, think of how dramatic that scene would have been knowing that not all of the scions were going to be safe, compared to how it was. Did they need to kill anyone in that showdown? No. But the knowledge that they could be, is what matters the most. It gives you that moment where you hold your breath, your heart begins to race and you feel real genuine fear and panic, which is just as important in this sort of story as the feelings of relief and joy you get from other situations.

That is why covering your main cast in plot armor is so terrible and a crutch for so many writers. It takes away more than it gives.

Very well said. And this is going to be even more so the case come Endwalker, with its attempt at portraying an apocalypse.

[A_moth_called_rose]

Chocobo boots

One could possibly call it, chocoboots?

[A_moth_called_rose]

Cool looking monk relics

nothing will top the rhalgar's fists eureka relic for me