Please restrict carry runs

[KageTokage]

You can dislike it all day long, but if you're going to report and make more work for the GMs to do, at least make sure there's an actual violation of the rules going on.

The thing is you can't actually report the party finders when the GMs are unable to take evidence from outside of the game.

The sellers know they can't be punished if all of the incriminating details are going to be mentioned on Discord, and while the GMs have made questionable exceptions for easily accessible outside evidence like tweets and twitch clips, I doubt they'll log into Discord specifically just to contact a suspicious individual.

[kaynide]

The thing is you can't actually report the party finders when the GMs are unable to take evidence from outside of the game.

The sellers know they can't be punished if all of the incriminating details are going to be mentioned on Discord, and while the GMs have made questionable exceptions for easily accessible outside evidence like tweets and twitch clips, I doubt they'll log into Discord specifically just to contact a suspicious individual.

Which is part of my point; if you can't prove or provide solid evidence, you're wasting GM time, which only exacerbates other problems that they should be spending time on.

[KageTokage]

Which is why they should just play it safe and ban content-selling ads in general if they're demanding that all details of the transaction take place outside of the game.

If they were doing something legitimate, they wouldn't need to be hiding anything.

[A_moth_called_rose]

On top of this, they'll require piloting the buyer's account - another thing which is a ToS violation and another reason why they won't discuss it in game.

So to the topic creator - it's basically already against the rules, but the problem is enforcement. And for some reason SE considers grouping up for RP to be PF abuse, but not this ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The RP groups that we getting delisted were primarily 18+ ERP groups being open boradcast in a game that is PEGI 12+. I get the comparison, but it's in bad faith

[kaynide]

Which is why they should just play it safe and ban content-selling ads in general if they're demanding that all details of the transaction take place outside of the game.

If they were doing something legitimate, they wouldn't need to be hiding anything.

Again in this case it's not the selling of runs that is a problem, but RMT or account sharing.

The problem is not simple to tackle: Using things like discord is not against ToS, and there are legitimate reasons for using outside-of-game resources for discussion/working out details.

eg: It is entirely possible for a player use discord or facebook or google docs to set up an online calendar of events for their FC, which includes discussing details/planning. Certain FCs even have point systems for calling in favors that can be cashed in/out for certain rare loot etc.
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So, if possible, SE needs to find a better way to detect those things: RMT and/or account sharing. RMT is tricky without a sting operation... but account sharing could be easier. Once a report is made, just monitor the IP of the 7-man static and their 8th carry..and monitor future carries. If there's an anomaly in IP during that fight (it matches one of the 7-man static; it matches past carries of this group), it might be evidence of account sharing and should warrant investigation.

[Curisu]

Or they simply could say that they are against sell runs and they will ban people who advertise and buy them.

Now the big discord/ reddit community's will follow it and Bann people who try to buy/ sell them.
That will make it harder to find them and less people will use it.

Also, a GM should try to buy these runs and then ban all involved accounts. That would take him just a day of work for each DC.

[kaynide]

Or they simply could say that they are against sell runs and they will ban people who advertise and buy them.

This can potentially open a big can of worms. I mean if you are strictly talking “don’t use the PF to list run selling”, I’m down for that. But if you are saying people who buy/sell runs in general… I’d be hesitant.

Like if a friend of a friend of a friend that I don’t really care about asked me to help carry him and a few friends through all of Binding Coil, I don’t know this guy… I’m not interested. If he offered like a million gil, maybe I’d be down. Not an explicit sale, just “come on man, I’ll give you 1m gil!” There was no advertisement, but I would have accepted gil for my time.

If his friend got offended that I had to be bought to spend my day on this and reported me, I could face potential ban for something I didn’t wanna do in the first place.

I’ve done similar things with treasure maps where the friend can have all the drops: I just wanted straight gil. Essentially “you can have all the drops from my 3 maps as long as I make more money than I could sell them for on MB”.

Sure, I could potentially make more getting materials, but my friend might also lose if no portals pop…he took a gamble.

Slightly straw man… but truthfully in my mind the prestige of clearing some content is just more stuff. I took a lot of time and effort to get my crafter where it is (arguably less than Heavansward era.. but still). People don’t get mad about me selling beds in the market board, or yell at them to level carpenter and do it themselves. They just pay some money and get a bed.

That’s my main point- selling a skill is fine, and should continue to be fine (mercenary work, etc).

The problem is the RMT/account sharing which (like most black market/illicit goods) is hard to track down by authorities.

Also, a GM should try to buy these runs and then ban all involved accounts. That would take him just a day of work for each DC.

Your second point, doing a sting operation, sounds awesome…but I think that unless they take it to a next level by banning IPs or credit cards or even entire banks the bad guys are just going to circumvent the system.

The best thing they can do is what they have done for most of the game’s content: make it so older content eventually becomes easier so people are not desperate to pay for runs.

That’s when I stopped. I had made enough money (in game, no RMT) and by that time Titan, etc were easy enough people didn’t need me.

[Curisu]

It's just about current and ultimate content.

No one cares if someone gets carried through old savage like omega raids or dungeons.
They can be done undersized and in just one evening.
If people are so lazy that they need to spend gil or even real money for it then it is their fault.

It really is just about people buying (mostly for real money) these harder current challenges that they normally would never archive.
Month 1 savage clears or the ultimate clears.
These PayPal legends reduce the prestige and accomplishment of ultimates.

[TheGreatNeos]

For anyone who has played MMOs long enough: you know exactly what kind of carry services I'm talking about. Generally it stays a very small niche, but when a lot of players join the game it becomes a bigger issue.

SE probably shouldn't openly take a stance on this, because most players have no idea how bad these problems are and how quickly they can degenerate. The game goes from being a game to being a commercial operation- which limits information about how some mechanics work, encourages exploiting new players, creates cliques and just... There's so many problems with it.

SE should tread carefully, be aware of this. Maybe advise their sponsored streamers not to partake in this, for example. Since they have a huge influence on the community.

[FoxyAreku]

I used to be against carries, but the content in this game is so easy to learn (and the gear is so worthless) at this point I just believe if someone is lazy or stupid enough to spend gil on a carry, let them. It's their choice.