This game has serious free-rider problems and it's getting worse. A suggestion.

[Canadane]

Yoshi-P has gone on record saying tuning is designed to allow people who aren't aware of how poor they were performing to be carried without much issue. While not applicable to savage/ultimate, the goal by design is to complete the duty, not complete the duty as effectively as possible. They want casual players who aren't trying extra to be able to complete things, and that's why things are as easy as they are.

[Awha]

End of the day any system that is designed to hold someone accountable in causal content will not go over well in this game.

The metric for trying in causal content has always been and always will be completion. If the content was cleared with dead weight then unfortunately by the game's standards and Yoshi-P they contributed enough even if that was zero. :P

[TeraRamis]

End of the day any system that is designed to hold someone accountable in causal content will not go over well in this game.

The metric for trying in causal content has always been and always will be completion. If the content was cleared with dead weight then unfortunately by the game's standards and Yoshi-P they contributed enough even if that was zero. :P

Except that the duty roulette can literally stick you some place like The Burn, where there's a minor DPS check, and the failure of some faceroller means that the group CANNOT win. I have seen it and lived it, and your answer there is either to disband (failure) or violate the TOS by doing a kick based on player performance.

So, no, the casual game does demand some level of competency. This is one area where Yoshi is quite simply an idealist who is wrong.

[Wavaryen]

I mean some balance changes need to be made still? Yes some instance might need more tuning for duty finder.


But overall most of the places can be done, and as long as it gets done that is what matters. So I don't mind if I have to carry. I would not use Duty Finder if I wanted a high quality group. That is what LS and FC are for. Building a social network of people I want to play with to my standards.


We get rewarded for carrying people. So I don't see a problem at all in doing it.

[Shurrikhan]

In my experience, that's the very definition of "elitism". Deciding based on subjective reasons who should and shouldn't get rewards.

"Don't do even 20% of your job and your pay won't likely continue beyond this paycheck."
- Elitist boss

Sure, this is not a job, but let's not pretend opposition to all things "elitist" as driven by principle (e.g., over practice) doesn't follow just as slippery a slope.

I mean some balance changes need to be made still? Yes some instance might need more tuning for duty finder.

Let me guess. The tuning process simply involves removing what few tangible challenges may remain?

We get rewarded for carrying people. So I don't see a problem at all in doing it.

We also get rewarded irl for doing our utmost to perpetuate others' dependencies on whatever we can provide. That doesn't make it the better thing for those we "help". But, again, any community-level interest here would of course be "elitist".

[Awha]

Except that the duty roulette can literally stick you some place like The Burn, where there's a minor DPS check, and the failure of some faceroller means that the group CANNOT win. I have seen it and lived it, and your answer there is either to disband (failure) or violate the TOS by doing a kick based on player performance.

So, no, the casual game does demand some level of competency. This is one area where Yoshi is quite simply an idealist who is wrong.

I agree it is a weird design philosophy but that is the nature if the game when it comes to causal content. They expect you to win together or fail together.

Though that is why I vote kick such people they, and I support more liberal use of the vote kick feature cause from experience silent kicks are hard to prove violation of the rules in the general sense. Though also let us be real if you are unable to clear Burn now at that point no one can save that group and probably better off eating the timer. :P

Point remains we may be in disagreement but unfortunately the game developer appears to be fine with the philosophy of succeed together or fail together. Which I gather is general philosophy of the JP community. Also calling Yoshi-P wrong is kinda moot cause the man is the one at the helm and unfortunately we have very little tangible means of usurping the mad tyrant. :P

[Nethereal]

I mean some balance changes need to be made still? Yes some instance might need more tuning for duty finder.


But overall most of the places can be done, and as long as it gets done that is what matters. So I don't mind if I have to carry. I would not use Duty Finder if I wanted a high quality group. That is what LS and FC are for. Building a social network of people I want to play with to my standards.


We get rewarded for carrying people. So I don't see a problem at all in doing it.

"High Quality group" = not wanting people to afk in your run.

We get reward for doing the content, not for carrying people. If we got rewarded for carrying people the people we carried wouldn't be getting the same reward as the one doing the carrying.

[Wavaryen]

"High Quality group" = not wanting people to afk in your run.

We get reward for doing the content, not for carrying people. If we got rewarded for carrying people the people we carried wouldn't be getting the same reward as the one doing the carrying.

Well that is how you feel. That is not how the game is design. Yoshi has made it clear what the design is. How we feel about it does not matter.


Wanting players to play better, or to even care is a hopeless battle. If you feel the rewards is not good enough for having to carry people. Again that is something to be said. Or certain duty finder dungeons need a nerf so you can carry easier? Sure, we can talk about that.


BUT how can you say that this is a problem, if the game is design for these types of people, and encourages them to just have fun? If your fun is ruined by these players. Than maybe this community is not for you.

[StriderShinryu]

I'll always agree to the game having some sort of soft rating or grading system to help players see their shortcomings (and give score chasers a chance to SSS+ rank everything if they want to). And I absolutely agree to the game doing a better job of teaching players how to play.

However, though, and it always comes up in threads like this, I think we need to stop treating under performing players as leechers who intentionally free-ride to get clears and loot. You have no idea why a player is underperforming and, as others have noted, the only real and legitimate "fail state" for content is to not clear said content. Maybe a player doesn't even know they're not performing well. Maybe a player can tell they're not doing well but doesn't know why because the game doesn't tell them. Maybe they know they're not great but aren't dedicated enough to spend their valuable game time outside of the game researching on third party sources how to get better. Maybe they have legitimate and real mental or physical challenges that prevent them from performing better than they do. Etc. Or, sure, maybe they are just a leecher who doesn't care.

People love to bring up the YoshiP comment about higher skilled players "carrying" low level players as proof of how right they are. In truth, though, this is about team content and maybe what you need to do is look at that statement from a different perspective. Instead of fixating so much on having to carry other players, what is so wrong with taking it as being good enough to be able to help those that are less skilled than you are? It's been said a million times by me and others, but if you're choosing to do random casual content with a random group of players then you're sometimes going to end up as the best player in the group.

[Nethereal]

*snip*

That's not how I feel, that's how it is.
There is no subjectivity here to say otherwise is to be intellectually dishonest.
You are rewarded for doing content, not for carrying people.