Serious note -Why so many toxic players lately?

[Krotoan]

Are two months considered that long ago? It's only time passing, it would still be the same thing if it happened yesterday. There has always been a constant influx of new players you just couldn't notice it.

Two months is longer than you can keep milk in the fridge, long enough to need another haircut, 4 paychecks, 2 mortgage payments, 2 Overwatch events. Yes, 2 months is considered a long time by lots of people. It would NOT be the same thing if it happened yesterday. Can you seriously consider what someone said they were doing two months ago to be binding to their behavior today? If I said two months ago (more mind you in my case) that I didn't want to eat watermelon and then today said I wanted to , would I have been lying or being facetious about it? If someone says something EVER do they have to stick to it forever regardless of changes in circumstance and information?

In those two months the subscribers to FFXIV have grown by nearly 2 million, compared to the preceding months where it was growing but not nearly at the same exponential rate.. so I would say it has been a notable difference in the recent growth rather than the steady growth from earlier. Enough that someone who plays and visits the forums regularly like myself might notice and factor it into decisions or observations.

Yes, I am when I decide to be, towards to people who deserve excessive vindictive criticism from me. And you are one of those. Though I wouldn't say that vindictive is the right word here. I interact with different people differently, in the way I feel like it.

Great, you be who are, that's very noble and all, but vindictive is a very appropriate word here. Take a look at the definition and you'll see. You wanted revenge and held on to it for two months for a forum comment. You were then willing to attack and try to "expose" someone who said something unpleasant to you and frame them as lying about something they never claimed to be an absolute value and which was contextual. As the famous disney movie sings: LET IT GO. Stress is bad for you and holding on to hate is poison.

And btw, people who are following someone else's recommendation for whom to have discussions with and with whom you shouldn't, are not really smart. You worded your sentence in a negative way, am I supposed to feel bad about not getting Krotoan's recommendations? I don't understand why?

I'm well aware you're unlikely to care what I think about you, I'm just summarizing.
If there was any sort of apology forthcoming it definitely wouldn't be after you decide to hold a grudge like that.


You don't even know me and I'm betting you've done lasting damage to yourself through stress just thinking about me. I'm not worth this, nobody is.

[Lunalepsy]

I've been watching the forums a bit and seeing how dungeon runs have been. It seems like the friendly and sociable FFXIV I knew and love is slowly getting a lot of toxicity in it. It's happened in many different ways, with some being worse than others. The incident leading me to post on this was a more toned down one, but still stupid.

Tonight's issue is I was in a roulette, I saw that our Dancer not using Dance Partner. I asked if they didn't have it at the level we were synced at or if perhaps they forgot to use it? Literally just asking because I couldn't remember and figured it's possible they just completely forgot for one reason or another. I mean, I've seen tanks forget to put on tank stance, scholars forget to bring out their fairy, and all sorts of little things. They didn't respond at all, so I said, "ok, I guess you don't speak English or chose to ignore me." At that point, they exploded as if I had been calling them all sorts of names and telling them how to play, telling me to mind my role.

I mean, ffs...really? Just curious if a lot of you are noticing the same issues?

I guess you've been living under a rock—this game has a lot of toxicity all over the place.

[Kes13a]

I guess you've been living under a rock—this game has a lot of toxicity all over the place.

I seem to miss all that you run into then. I hardly find... "a lot"

[Dragonblanco]

I went to respond to lot of people yesterday but I guess I exceeded a post limit. So I'm going to do a "generic" thing here to address everything at once. I appreciate all of you who have answered the question. Obviously a lot of us are split on our view of communities. Perhaps some are more sensitive than others, maybe it's luck, it could be differences in servers/data centers, etc. Regardless, my aim with this thread wasn't to have people arguing back and forth or to have anyone trolling. Yes, I fell into a couple traps and argued back, which I shouldn't have done either.

On a second note, my example wasn't fully descriptive. I can't post the words used or anything as it's a ToS thing. I dumbed it down to the most basic. A lot of people who told me not to assume did much the same thing, making assumptions of how many times I asked, how long I waited before making the comment about being ignored or they don't speak English, etc. That said, lesson I learned is I need to stop giving examples and just ask questions because otherwise a lot of the trolls and other people here will look at trying to twist things to cause conflict. Which that, in itself, I call a bit of toxicity. A toxic community is one that turns things into arguments, shaming, disrespect, lacks empathy, etc. Why do those things fit into being called toxic? Toxic = very harmful or unpleasant in a pervasive or insidious way. Those behaviors and attitudes are very harmful to community and success in a MMORPG. Games like FFXIV focus on all the opposite aspects, so anything to detract from the game's build and community would be called toxic.

Almost done here....I get it, some of you felt my example had me as slightly toxic. I see that comes from misunderstandings among other things. I mean, everyone has their own level of comfort and sometimes the most innocent thing can be offensive to another. Like in some countries a "thumbs up" means "Ok" but in other countries it means "up yours!" As they say, "different strokes for different folks." However, that argument works both ways. I could have been more patient or not said something, but it takes other people to know some people are either ignorant or may just be trying to be helpful. Someone asking a question or making a suggestion is something to also be patient and understanding on. In fact, the basis of this game is that you can talk and be friendly with each other, you offer support, and so much more.

I'm not going to be commenting or posting further on this thread, but feel free to continue the conversation without me. Last thing I'm going to say is that I hope more of you can try to hear people out and be more understanding. The amount of "it's a troll" or "it's a Titanmen alt!" is also a bit toxic. There are people looking to have legit conversations but people are quick to bully and bash using someone else from the past as an excuse. Evaluate each post separately. Remember, trolls look for conflict. So you only feed them when you start being negative to others. At least, that's how I see it.

I hope y'all have fun! Enjoy the game and try to help others do the same.

[Imora]

I guess you've been living under a rock—this game has a lot of toxicity all over the place.

My definition of toxicity must be different than yours then because I don't see it.

Rude folks, sure. Stupid people, sure. Toxic? Nope.

[Roeshel]

You don't even know me and I'm betting you've done lasting damage to yourself through stress just thinking about me. I'm not worth this, nobody is.

No, I haven't. I just remember more stuff and a lot of details. People might think that I am wasting my time remembering excessive details but it helps me build a better understanding of the world in general.

If I get into the philosophical point of view two months are not always considered a lot of time by most people. It really depends on the context.

I am most definitely not holding grudges since I am not emotionally invested with you. You are just one of the curiosities I met when I came into this forum. A curiosity because the perception I was trying to project was very different from what you received so I wanted to know and understand the cause of the distortion. Not everyone needs to be holding grudges to remember past events. Some people are different than you.

Anyway, it is really odd for me when people say that wanting revenge and holding a grudge is a very bad thing to do. At what point does revenge become justice and justice becomes revenge. One of the main differences is that justice is rational, revenge is emotional. But when you are both emotional and rational what is it called or is the general understanding that emotions don't co-exist with logic? In my opinion, justice and revenge are the same thing with different labels which only serves to segregate the slightly different outcomes. Justice - do smth bad on someone bad to establish order into a society, revenge - do smth bad on someone bad to establish order into to your own personal life. But because you can do the latter without exactly resorting to revenge then revenge all of a sudden becomes a bad thing and justice a good thing. Many structures of society are just silly. "Justice can do what revenge does but revenge can't do what justice does" is probably what people think because justice is a slightly more complicated structure that originates from revenge and requires the participation of more people but actually this is not really true in all cases. Regardless of how justice is perceived if you think that revenge is inherently bad or a wrong thing to do then you are indirectly saying that justice is wrong. A lot of people will not go to court if feelings of resentment and hatred were not driving their actions. They want revenge and people just paint it with the fancy word justice and make people associate the good type of revenge with the one which involves society. But if you dare to presume that you know better than society then you are one step away from "receiving justice" for disrupting the established order. This only encourages follower behaviour and as a result, it is common for people to not think with their own heads.

[Krotoan]

If I get into the philosophical point of view two months are not always considered a lot of time by most people. It really depends on the context.

Two months is not a lot of time in a lifetime or say an education, however it is a lot of time to hold on to hurt feelings from a mildly insulting forum post on a video game forum or to hold somebody to a comment made in context of the moment. The idea that you are now trying to say "two months is the same as yesterday" is pretty ridiculous. Two months may be a short time (btw.. about 2 and a HALF months really.. ) in certain perspectives but it is still a sizeable chunk of time and as I cited what happened during those two months specificially, I.E. an exponentially huge growth of the FFXIV playerbase, a lot can happen in 2 months.

I am most definitely not holding grudges since I am not emotionally invested with you. You are just one of the curiosities I met when I came into this forum. A curiosity because the perception I was trying to project was very different from what you received so I wanted to know and understand the cause of the distortion. Not everyone needs to be holding grudges to remember past events. Some people are different than you.

Yet you specifically came in here to have a "gotcha" moment. Not to clarify anything. Just "you said this two months ago but you've said you're doing this now". You then proceeded to try and characterize me as "arrogant" for maintaining my original stance and clarifying my perspective as well as my statement of what you were observably doing.

Anyway, it is really odd for me when people say that wanting revenge and holding a grudge is a very bad thing to do. At what point does revenge become justice and justice becomes revenge. One of the main differences is that justice is rational, revenge is emotional. But when you are both emotional and rational what is it called or is the general understanding that emotions don't co-exist with logic? In my opinion, justice and revenge are the same thing with different labels which only serves to segregate the slightly different outcomes. Justice - do smth bad on someone bad to establish order into a society, revenge - do smth bad on someone bad to establish order into to your own personal life. But because you can do the latter without exactly resorting to revenge then revenge all of a sudden becomes a bad thing and justice a good thing. Many structures of society are just silly. "Justice can do what revenge does but revenge can't do what justice does" is probably what people think because justice is a slightly more complicated structure that originates from revenge and requires the participation of more people but actually this is not really true in all cases. Regardless of how justice is perceived if you think that revenge is inherently bad or a wrong thing to do then you are indirectly saying that justice is wrong. A lot of people will not go to court if feelings of resentment and hatred were not driving their actions. They want revenge and people just paint it with the fancy word justice and make people associate the good type of revenge with the one which involves society. But if you dare to presume that you know better than society then you are one step away from "receiving justice" for disrupting the established order. This only encourages follower behaviour and as a result, it is common for people to not think with their own heads.

Trying to frame someone as a liar over an old forum comment that is irrelevant in current context is not "justice". It's petty revenge and not justified in any way.


This is getting old and is far too much of this thread. I'm done. Enjoy your last word, whatever you choose to post.

[MrMagic]

Yes, you don't blame the other player because you empathize with them, because you have probably done a similar thing in the past and might do it again.

"You literally caused someone to be salty", the OP is not their mother and what they said is perfectly fine if the person they were talking to is not suffering from insecurities. And that DNC suffering from insecurities is not the OP's fault yet people here blame them for not taking into account that the person they might be talking to is a complete snowflake.

For all I know I can tell you straight up that you are bad and not even bother with giving you advice on how to play your role unless you ask for it and even kick you if I get a snarky remark from you when you don't know the basics of your class. Happened with a couple of tanks. And here, the OP who is trying to initiate a normal discussion is being labeled as toxic by the same breed of DPS players they encountered in DF. Truly disgusting that you are of a great multitude.

Ha ha no. Speculate all you wish about what I do. I'm allowed to be objective.

[Roeshel]

snip.

People have different perceptions of time. Get over it. I wouldn't have even started the discussion if you didn't use caps to push your understanding that two months is a lot of time for me to remember something in the past. No, they are not. Ten years are not. I can also tell why past, present and future are the same things but then I will only get a reply saying "my egg is going to spoil tomorrow"

"Albert Einstein once wrote: People like us who believe in physics know that the distinction between past, present and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion. Time, in other words, he said, is an illusion."

If you want to get a better understanding of what reality is learn from those who are studying reality. And please stop projecting yourself as a victim of some nonexistent random gotcha moment you think I think I had. Reap what you sow.

Ha ha no. Speculate all you wish about what I do. I'm allowed to be objective.

Yes, you are allowed, yet you refused to be.

Saying that the OP is responsible for causing someone else to be salty with the words she said she used is the same as saying that it is my fault that I am not choosing my words carefully when talking to some arrogant nobody. Yes, it is my fault for breathing as well. If you want to be objective then be objective. Just because you know that someone is going to respond in a certain way does not mean that you should be fine with the way they are responding. People who dislike getting real advice about how to play their role are toxic. Their behavior is detrimental to themselves and those around them. The OP worded the title of the thread in a wrong way because the truth is, these types of players have always been around but since they are new, they didn't know that.

[Lanadra]

No, I've not seen a change. It's the same as I always see, a greeting, then a goodbye at the end, as in most leveling dungeons. In Praetorium you'll usually get some fun chatter as everyone settles down for another 45 minute rerun of Praetorium the Movie, same to a lesser extent in Castrum. Toxicity is a once in a blue moon encounter for me, has been for the year I've played now.