Botting: Good or Evil? lol

[AngelCheese77]

Bots in FF14 are TAME compared to some games.

In ESO when first launched, bots could be seen FLYING IN THE AIR across maps. Moving and killing underground in plain sight. Teleporting up through 3 storey buildings. Blatant teleporting to each node to harvest.

Ugh.

[Awha]

Bots and myself have a contentious relationship, my first summer job as a kid was selling Gold in WoW and I used bots, bought my first car with the money I made. I know people who have used MMO RMT with bots to help bridge the gap in rent and university bills. In the end I do not think this is a simple black and white issue in the sense from the consumer, I do agree that it is against the rules, but I also do not blame people for taking their chance when it comes to breaching those rules especially when SE is fairly lax with their enforcement when someone follows certain steps.

I know many will disagree but it is not the responsibility of the players to follow the rules simply because they are the rules, in an ideal world sure that is how it works but in the real world if a party wants someone to follow rules be it the government, parents, company etc . . . They need to actively enforce said rules across the board not when it only becomes an inconvenience to them.

[MilkieTea]

There has never been a grey zone in regard to bots. There's a reason why they regularly round up hundreds or so bots every month or so and report on how many they banned, regardless of how resilient the botters are or how many times they buy new accounts.

Again, there is no grey zone: If you are using any kind of tool that gives you any kind of advantage over other players, and you are caught, you will be banned.

To the point, they don't care if you use plugins that allow you to glitch your housing items, or an automated macro-software that plays songs. They DO care if you can push 1 button and have your character run between mining points and gather materials without your input. Or move unnaturally. Or glitch fights. Etc.

This, 100%. There is no grey area when it comes to botting. I thought I was pretty clear when I said that lmao.

[Dragonblanco]

No disrespect to people with families and jobs, but this doesn't entitle you to unfair advantages over others. Sometimes you just have to accept that your real life situation means you can't fully enjoy all the hobbies you wish. You can't just expect to be allowed to negatively impact hobbies for people who enjoy them because you have a job or children. Not to mention bots are not handed out based on an evaluation of your real life commitments and time schedule, they're openly available and more often used by people who have plenty of free time and can't be bothered.
The game already respects your time more than most. If the developers consider a form of automated gameplay to be acceptable, they'd have added it.

On the topic of legal ingame bots, I've actually seen MMO's try this years ago in the past as a means to combat botting. They absolutely wrecked their own economies. All markets simply died. It pretty much killed those games.



Buying items cheap is the end result. It feels like a benefit, but you skip over and destroy everything in the middle. For those who like to sell, there's no longer a point in leveling crafters, gearing, farming mats, making items and listing them. For those who buy, there's no longer a point in leveling crafters, farming Normal raids, farming scrips and all the rest. Why bother, just buy your items and gear dirt cheap from a bot.

Super cheap items are only a very short term "benefit". Similar to loading cheat codes in a single player game is a benefit for half an hour, then you suddenly realize you're bored and done with the game.

Thanks for a friendly and awesome response. Overall I'm right on board with you. And as others have said, some of my frustration is more in how the developers have failed. Like we really need to see them revamp housing. Camping the placards just is screwed up. And as much as I'd like to think of it a bit as I did of the old HNM days and all in FFXI, there's a huge difference in that you're competing for yourself. At least on HNM camping it was a group effort and we had fun with each other while there. I think it's about the only area of the game where I've been frustrated enough that I've considered botting. But that's just frustration talking.

[Dragonblanco]

There has never been a grey zone in regard to bots. There's a reason why they regularly round up hundreds or so bots every month or so and report on how many they banned, regardless of how resilient the botters are or how many times they buy new accounts.

Again, there is no grey zone: If you are using any kind of tool that gives you any kind of advantage over other players, and you are caught, you will be banned.

To the point, they don't care if you use plugins that allow you to glitch your housing items, or an automated macro-software that plays songs. They DO care if you can push 1 button and have your character run between mining points and gather materials without your input. Or move unnaturally. Or glitch fights. Etc.

It's sad that you and Milkie have such poor reading comprehension and can't grasp what the idea of a gray area is. I know neither of you are stupid, but it's like this just is going right over your heads. Not sure if it's intentional just because y'all are hoping to argue, if it's because you can't handle the idea of gray areas, if you only accept certain aspects because you do it but shun the rest since you don't, or what.

Main point is they did spell out that using peripherals and programs on the computer for any purpose is a gray area. They can't see it and they can't control what you have on your personal computer. They can tell you that using anything other than the game client is a violation of ToS, but that it's a slippery slope beyond that. So as long as you're not hacking the server, you aren't hurting the client, and you're not modifying anything they generally look away. When you mention things like glitch fights or moving unnaturally, that's a violation of the "do not" and things they WILL eventually catch you on.

The things like macro to repeat things you can normally do while playing the game, having an overlay that doesn't directly affect the game, etc are all things they are saying they can't see and have no way to prove. So they are limited and include that in what they call the "gray area." It's not gray because it's not a violation, it's just gray because it fits in an ambiguous situation.

Oh, and you're adding "any kind of advantage over other players" while completely ignoring the things I mentioned on that. You also skipped over where he even compared to a person using a gaming mouse to someone who isn't, is the extra buttons on the gaming mouse cheating? It gives that player an advantage....

[Awha]

Personally this is the very reason I dislike using the word advantage when it comes to such discussions because I think it detracts and distracts from the core of the issue.

Just leads to semantics at the very least when it is used both sides should first agree upon what they quantify what is the agreed upon list of advantages so a fair discussion can be hand and does not result in needless back forth over semantics.

So if someone doesn't have the time to study for a test, it's okay to get the answers and cheat on it?

The housing situation is not good. However, SE just announced some measures to try to help with it.

Ishgard Restoration wasn't just personal. There was a leaderboard with titles tied to it. So you're saying those who do put in the time at their PC deserve to lose out over bots who can run things 24/7.

Letting bots devalue gear *too* much means there is no market for it. I've played other MMOs like EQII where crafted gear value went into the toilet. Crafted gear is actually viable here, but there needs to be at least some market for it so players keep producing it. And bots can't do what a lot of crafters do, which is sit in cities giving newbies gear away for free or crafting for a small tip if someone can provide the mats.

If they do not caught then why not? Moral or ethical reasons are irrelevant to the person committing the action. I know of a good friend that straight up cheated on numerous of his exams in both undergraduate and post graduate studies and they are doing just fine. The reality is without active enforcement of the rules the moral and ethical implications are moot to those commenting the action.

Sorry trying to avoid hitting post limit.

[MrMagic]

For me, I've tried to see it from different ways. Like people with families or multiple jobs can't always man their PC to try for things like housing. So for them, letting it do Ishgard Restoration while they are at work, helping their kids, or whatever else lets them actually enjoy the game without having to do the button spam for hours on end. Or it lets them camp out and try to buy property that otherwise would demand they stand there for 4+ hours in hopes to get the purchase.

One of the worst ways I can think of to use a bot is to obtain a limited resource (housing) shared by all players on the server at the expense of others. No one cares if it's so you can spend more time with the family or have less time to play. It's kind of end of discussion at that point but discuss away anyway.

[TaleraRistain]

So if someone doesn't have the time to study for a test, it's okay to get the answers and cheat on it?

The housing situation is not good. However, SE just announced some measures to try to help with it.

Ishgard Restoration wasn't just personal. There was a leaderboard with titles tied to it. So you're saying those who do put in the time at their PC deserve to lose out over bots who can run things 24/7.

Letting bots devalue gear *too* much means there is no market for it. I've played other MMOs like EQII where crafted gear value went into the toilet. Crafted gear is actually viable here, but there needs to be at least some market for it so players keep producing it. And bots can't do what a lot of crafters do, which is sit in cities giving newbies gear away for free or crafting for a small tip if someone can provide the mats.

As to your dilemma on whether you should use them or not because SE doesn't enforce it as much as you think they should, character is what you do when others aren't looking. If you want to accept cheating, you're going to accept cheating, and find any number of excuses why it's not bad. That doesn't make it not bad.

[Kes13a]

Oh, and you're adding "any kind of advantage over other players" while completely ignoring the things I mentioned on that. You also skipped over where he even compared to a person using a gaming mouse to someone who isn't, is the extra buttons on the gaming mouse cheating? It gives that player an advantage....

I have used a gaming mouse before, and last I checked, they do not automate gameplay the way that bot programs do. a gaming mouse will not check and change market pricing every 10-15 minutes. a gaming mouse will not cycle between harvest nodes while you sleep, read, have dinner etc... a gaming mouse will not run through dungeons and map parties while you sleep or have dinner etc...

those are examples of things a bot program can do, the end result being that the person using the bot....doesnt even have to play the game or be at the computer. period. there is zero comparing the two.

using a bot is cheating, it is specifically disallowed and is not grey area lol, but if someone is going to cheat, they'll cheat. its that simple

[Katie_Kitty]

People are always missing the point when it comes to bots. Okay, so people bot for housing. People bot for the marketboard. That's all crappy and we should get rid of it, but it's not the main issue.

The main issue is that there is software available that completely automates gameplay for every class. Nobody ever talks about it, but it's there and you really never know if someone is actually playing their own class or not. I guess you know if they're really bad, but for the good players, who knows.