Botting: Good or Evil? lol

[Dragonblanco]

EDIT (because people wanted to argue on dumb things instead of focusing on what I was saying and asking. Hoping this edit will help people better respond)

TL DR = I just have 4 questions for everyone.

1. Do you think there's a place for botting or SE should get stricter?

2. What are the pros and cons of botting? (this is generic to everyone and the game itself)

3. What do you like and/or hate about the idea of botting in the game? (this question is asking your personal thoughts and opinions on it, not what everyone else thinks.)

4. If they suddenly changed their stance to permit it, would you bot yourself?

For clarification

Botting = using 3rd party programs or macros to perform tasks in game. Especially if done repetitively. Example might be using Razer Synapse to record mouse clicks and then macro it to a particular button, automating actions that otherwise couldn't be automated using features in FFXIV.

Macro = String of commands executed at the push of a button. Macro can be in-game tool or a macro created externally using peripherals and specialized programs.

Rules = We're not here to argue what is or is not against the rules. It's obvious ToS is against, though they also said hard to enforce and falls in gray area. But again, isn't what we're here to talk about.
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Original Post


I've noticed some threads come up on this, but I really want to hear from the player base in in General Discussion. Do you think there's a place for botting or SE should get stricter? What are the pros and cons?

For me, I've tried to see it from different ways. Like people with families or multiple jobs can't always man their PC to try for things like housing. So for them, letting it do Ishgard Restoration while they are at work, helping their kids, or whatever else lets them actually enjoy the game without having to do the button spam for hours on end. Or it lets them camp out and try to buy property that otherwise would demand they stand there for 4+ hours in hopes to get the purchase.

Also, an argument "pro botting" that I've heard said is in regards to Market pricing. With bots and others creating things and filling the market, undercutting people, etc. that means it's bringing gear prices down to more manageable numbers, allowing for newer players and casuals to be able to afford it. Where otherwise they would be more of a demand and the prices just ridiculous numbers.


However, I also know the bad. Those people botting are getting an unfair advantage in trying to get that house compared to the person not using it. You can't always click with that speed and accuracy. Plus it means you're actually sacrificing your time and life while they aren't. Beyond that though, I honestly struggle with seeing what's so bad about them having bots on the market, crafting, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending it, but really trying to figure out what I'm missing...if anything. The bots that people say are automated and gathering materials. This game has nodes independent of each other, so that bot hitting a node doesn't take the node away from you. So there would be no negative impact. The bot crafting and turning in collectibles to level up gathering at Ishgard, again is independent and doesn't affect other players negatively.

Sure, them undercutting means you can't sell some things as high as you'd want. But then it's the reverse too, that you can buy things cheaper than you otherwise could. I think it's this gray area of seeing more benefits than negative, not to mention how there's no substantial direct impact against players, why we see so much of it existing.

This said, I do know they go full throttle against anyone who use hacks and all. Like they talked one specific "addon" that eliminated the artificial cooldown imposed in skill animation locks which allows players to cast faster than otherwise would be allowed. They have been and will be banning people for those things, as it's getting into game files and manipulating the server.

So you tell me, what do you like and/or hate about the idea of botting in the game? If they suddenly changed their stance to permit it, would you bot yourself?

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Botting in an mmo is akin to aim hacks and what not. its not good lol.

The problem is making it so you can catch botters without using intrusive anti cheat software.

[Dragonblanco]

Botting in an mmo is akin to aim hacks and what not. its not good lol.

Yeah, which is where I said the hacks and unfair advantage. What's interesting though is the majority of what we do in this game is as allies. So somebody killing faster or doing things like that tend to help us in raids. It's not like we see damage numbers where we compare each other on DPS output and exclude anyone based on it. I do know some elitists do try to run things like fflogs and all, but what's the purpose of that? I haven't done PVP yet but I did mention where I know some of the things they talked about and are working on ending, which I agree with. But essentially a lot of that goes down to hacks rather than botting. Which terminology and all can be interesting, as some people see them as the same and others don't.

The problem is making it so you can catch botters without using intrusive anti cheat software.

Yeah, which they also said has been difficult due to legalities. Not to mention other places that have tried different things and people always find workarounds to bypass the code. Everything is just temporary overall and is a constant fight.

[Misplaced_Marbles]

PURE EVIL!

[Kes13a]

its cheating and should be banned, permanently.

pretty sure if you actually read the threads you would have seen that the majority considers it cheating and bad for the game.

if they actually came out and said botting was fully allowed, no, I wouldnt do it. but I would shop for another game.

[BaconBits]

GOOD AND EVIL, THE WAR ETERNAL.

[Dragonblanco]

its cheating and should be banned, permanently.

pretty sure if you actually read the threads you would have seen that the majority considers it cheating and bad for the game.

if they actually came out and said botting was fully allowed, no, I wouldnt do it. but I would shop for another game.

Well, I don't spend a lot of times on the forum persay. And when I do see things, it's often comments like yours which are very short and generic. I mean, it's your answer but like you didn't tackle any of the points I mentioned and ignored the aspect of pros and cons.

What I find most interesting in that is I'd really like to learn ages and life experiences from those who have solid black and white answers, like saying it's cheating and should be banned. I'm not going to say that type of answer is wrong, but it feels to me like an "inexperienced" viewpoint. I don't mean that negatively but I'm referring to how much of the world doesn't operate in "black and white" but often wants people to operate in the "gray areas." Where we're supposed to ignore what one person does because of their connections or some bullcrap. Essentially, think of it like how politics work. Instead of everyone doing what's right and enforcing those morals & ethics, the world often turns its eyes and doesn't want to see it.

I think where I'm more willing to think about it, listen, and spark up conversation is because I've essentially become a bit jaded, or whatever the proper term is. I've tried doing right and been burnt quite often for it. So as I look around the politics of the world and see how it all operates, I guess I've become more numb and accepting of "gray areas." It doesn't mean I agree or am happy with it, but that I just learn nothing is going to change and we just have to accept it. Not sure if that makes sense to you?

[Kes13a]

Well, I don't spend a lot of times on the forum persay. And when I do see things, it's often comments like yours which are very short and generic. I mean, it's your answer but like you didn't tackle any of the points I mentioned and ignored the aspect of pros and cons.

What I find most interesting in that is I'd really like to learn ages and life experiences from those who have solid black and white answers, like saying it's cheating and should be banned. I'm not going to say that type of answer is wrong, but it feels to me like an "inexperienced" viewpoint. I don't mean that negatively but I'm referring to how much of the world doesn't operate in "black and white" but often wants people to operate in the "gray areas." Where we're supposed to ignore what one person does because of their connections or some bullcrap. Essentially, think of it like how politics work. Instead of everyone doing what's right and enforcing those morals & ethics, the world often turns its eyes and doesn't want to see it.

I think where I'm more willing to think about it, listen, and spark up conversation is because I've essentially become a bit jaded, or whatever the proper term is. I've tried doing right and been burnt quite often for it. So as I look around the politics of the world and see how it all operates, I guess I've become more numb and accepting of "gray areas." It doesn't mean I agree or am happy with it, but that I just learn nothing is going to change and we just have to accept it. Not sure if that makes sense to you?

probably because there is an extensive thread regarding it in Markets and retainers section. cheating is not a "gray area". cheating harms play by legitimate players who put time and effort into a game. the botters typically are not even anywhere near the keyboard so is automated play designed for personal real life enrichment, also know as money. period. they are not doing to to feel any sense of achievement, they are doing it for teh sole reason of bypassing having to put out any personal effort. how is that in any way good for a game?

as for ages etc, I have been playing game and mmo's since before WoW came to market, so have been involved with a few, and a healthy game environment is one where cheaters are punished, because it promotes a feeling that all are equal and not that a few can get away with "gaming the system". when it comes to crafting, how is it "right" that a normal, non cheating person spend the time crafting an item while a bot churns them out by the bushel load with zero effort by the user?

the use of third party software, namely botting software, is against the TOS and is explicitly stated, there is no "gray area".

[Dragonblanco]

probably because there is an extensive thread regarding it in Markets and retainers section. cheating is not a "gray area". cheating harms play by legitimate players who put time and effort into a game. the botters typically are not even anywhere near the keyboard so is automated play designed for personal real life enrichment, also know as money. period. they are not doing to to feel any sense of achievement, they are doing it for teh sole reason of bypassing having to put out any personal effort. how is that in any way good for a game?

as for ages etc, I have been playing game and mmo's since before WoW came to market, so have been involved with a few, and a healthy game environment is one where cheaters are punished, because it promotes a feeling that all are equal and not that a few can get away with "gaming the system". when it comes to crafting, how is it "right" that a normal, non cheating person spend the time crafting an item while a bot churns them out by the bushel load with zero effort by the user?

the use of third party software, namely botting software, is against the TOS and is explicitly stated, there is no "gray area".

I say gray area because developers have called it a gray area. I wish I could find the video itself again, but here's a Reddit with the transcripts. Try to check it out.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...talking_about/

Or you can do a YouTube where someone is reading it from a Discord. That's at https://youtu.be/-FrGa1HJIVs

[Kes13a]

I say gray area because developers have called it a gray area. I wish I could find the video itself again, but here's a Reddit with the transcripts. Try to check it out.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...talking_about/

Or you can do a YouTube where someone is reading it from a Discord. That's at https://youtu.be/-FrGa1HJIVs

when it comes to actual enforcement, what some dev says on some video isnt going to save your toosh

what is written in the TOS is what they'll enforce and if your botting and you have interfered with someones enjoyment, or are obviously using a third party program, they wont think "oh this is a gray area" they'll penalize you regardless of what a dev said. so no, there is no gray area according to the rules. following the rules wont get you banned, wandering into gray areas to play with bots, just might.