Botting: Good or Evil? lol

[kaynide]

I've noticed some threads come up on this, but I really want to hear from the player base in in General Discussion. Do you think there's a place for botting or SE should get stricter? What are the pros and cons?

For me, I've tried to see it from different ways. Like people with families or multiple jobs can't always man their PC to try for things like housing. So for them, letting it do Ishgard Restoration while they are at work, helping their kids, or whatever else lets them actually enjoy the game without having to do the button spam for hours on end. Or it lets them camp out and try to buy property that otherwise would demand they stand there for 4+ hours in hopes to get the purchase.

Respectfully, as a family man, if you want to do X, but can't devote the time to do X because of real life reasons, you should simply not do X, or find an alternative to X that will satisfy you, or find a way to organize your life to allow for doing X.

In the case of not being able to devote time play an MMO, there are other games that one could play. Or you could try to get a better job that allows for more free time. Or .. or.. or.. the list goes on. Simply put, if you're relying on an automation system to play a game for you, should you really be playing that game in the first place?

So you tell me, what do you like and/or hate about the idea of botting in the game? If they suddenly changed their stance to permit it, would you bot yourself?

I hate the idea of botting as a general thing, but I would be open to the devs having some sort of automation stuff in play, or re-working the game to remove the need for cases where bots are used.

Like, they are going to add a lottery system for housing, so there won't be the 4+ hours or whatever camping to buy property anymore. Win.

I think an automation system would be good for crafting.. like say I want to make "ARMOR" but I need to do Ore -> Ingot -> Plates; Skin -> Leather; Random plants -> Oil etc. It would be nice to just say "Make this ARMOR" and it has me start making whatever components I need, one after the other until I ultimately craft the armor. Auto switch crafting jobs without exiting the crafting system each time, auto select the next component to make and go go.

For markets, if they did like Guild Wars and removed the item stack weirdness. You should just go to the market, say "I wanna buy 10 rootbeers for at most 125 gil each" and the order is placed. As long as your buy-limit price is over the lowest sale price, you buy exactly 10 rootbeers for whatever price they were asking for, up to 125 gil.

[Sotaris]

Is using Razer Synapse, iCue etc etc botting then?

[AngelCheese77]

Bots in FF14 are TAME compared to some games.

In ESO when first launched, bots could be seen FLYING IN THE AIR across maps. Moving and killing underground in plain sight. Teleporting up through 3 storey buildings. Blatant teleporting to each node to harvest.

Ugh.

[Awha]

Bots and myself have a contentious relationship, my first summer job as a kid was selling Gold in WoW and I used bots, bought my first car with the money I made. I know people who have used MMO RMT with bots to help bridge the gap in rent and university bills. In the end I do not think this is a simple black and white issue in the sense from the consumer, I do agree that it is against the rules, but I also do not blame people for taking their chance when it comes to breaching those rules especially when SE is fairly lax with their enforcement when someone follows certain steps.

I know many will disagree but it is not the responsibility of the players to follow the rules simply because they are the rules, in an ideal world sure that is how it works but in the real world if a party wants someone to follow rules be it the government, parents, company etc . . . They need to actively enforce said rules across the board not when it only becomes an inconvenience to them.

[Arrhin]

Bots and myself have a contentious relationship, my first summer job as a kid was selling Gold in WoW and I used bots, bought my first car with the money I made. I know people who have used MMO RMT with bots to help bridge the gap in rent and university bills. In the end I do not think this is a simple black and white issue in the sense from the consumer, I do agree that it is against the rules, but I also do not blame people for taking their chance when it comes to breaching those rules especially when SE is fairly lax with their enforcement when someone follows certain steps.

I know many will disagree but it is not the responsibility of the players to follow the rules simply because they are the rules, in an ideal world sure that is how it works but in the real world if a party wants someone to follow rules be it the government, parents, company etc . . . They need to actively enforce said rules across the board not when it only becomes an inconvenience to them.

If this is your world view then just wow, like WOW. Morals be damned, who cares who I **** over. Me, me , me, I , I , I. FYI, the more you bot (and I bet you do) the more resources you take from the development of the game for your "enforcement". So next time people complain about content drought just know that the GM payroll costs money and it's coming out of the same budget....

[Awha]

If this is your world view then just wow, like WOW. Morals be damned, who cares who I **** over. Me, me , me, I , I , I. FYI, the more you bot (and I bet you do) the more resources you take from the development of the game for your "enforcement". So next time people complain about content drought just know that the GM payroll costs money and it's coming out of the same budget....

Before anything else why should I care about what people complain about?

Secondly the reality is that is how the world works everything is a balancing act like it or not my way of thinking is not foriegn or unheard of. We all are guilty of breaking rules when it is convenient for us and we know the chances of getting caught are slim.

[MilkieTea]

There has never been a grey zone in regard to bots. There's a reason why they regularly round up hundreds or so bots every month or so and report on how many they banned, regardless of how resilient the botters are or how many times they buy new accounts.

Again, there is no grey zone: If you are using any kind of tool that gives you any kind of advantage over other players, and you are caught, you will be banned.

To the point, they don't care if you use plugins that allow you to glitch your housing items, or an automated macro-software that plays songs. They DO care if you can push 1 button and have your character run between mining points and gather materials without your input. Or move unnaturally. Or glitch fights. Etc.

This, 100%. There is no grey area when it comes to botting. I thought I was pretty clear when I said that lmao.

[Awha]

Personally this is the very reason I dislike using the word advantage when it comes to such discussions because I think it detracts and distracts from the core of the issue.

Just leads to semantics at the very least when it is used both sides should first agree upon what they quantify what is the agreed upon list of advantages so a fair discussion can be hand and does not result in needless back forth over semantics.

So if someone doesn't have the time to study for a test, it's okay to get the answers and cheat on it?

The housing situation is not good. However, SE just announced some measures to try to help with it.

Ishgard Restoration wasn't just personal. There was a leaderboard with titles tied to it. So you're saying those who do put in the time at their PC deserve to lose out over bots who can run things 24/7.

Letting bots devalue gear *too* much means there is no market for it. I've played other MMOs like EQII where crafted gear value went into the toilet. Crafted gear is actually viable here, but there needs to be at least some market for it so players keep producing it. And bots can't do what a lot of crafters do, which is sit in cities giving newbies gear away for free or crafting for a small tip if someone can provide the mats.

If they do not caught then why not? Moral or ethical reasons are irrelevant to the person committing the action. I know of a good friend that straight up cheated on numerous of his exams in both undergraduate and post graduate studies and they are doing just fine. The reality is without active enforcement of the rules the moral and ethical implications are moot to those commenting the action.

Sorry trying to avoid hitting post limit.

[MrMagic]

For me, I've tried to see it from different ways. Like people with families or multiple jobs can't always man their PC to try for things like housing. So for them, letting it do Ishgard Restoration while they are at work, helping their kids, or whatever else lets them actually enjoy the game without having to do the button spam for hours on end. Or it lets them camp out and try to buy property that otherwise would demand they stand there for 4+ hours in hopes to get the purchase.

One of the worst ways I can think of to use a bot is to obtain a limited resource (housing) shared by all players on the server at the expense of others. No one cares if it's so you can spend more time with the family or have less time to play. It's kind of end of discussion at that point but discuss away anyway.

[TaleraRistain]

So if someone doesn't have the time to study for a test, it's okay to get the answers and cheat on it?

The housing situation is not good. However, SE just announced some measures to try to help with it.

Ishgard Restoration wasn't just personal. There was a leaderboard with titles tied to it. So you're saying those who do put in the time at their PC deserve to lose out over bots who can run things 24/7.

Letting bots devalue gear *too* much means there is no market for it. I've played other MMOs like EQII where crafted gear value went into the toilet. Crafted gear is actually viable here, but there needs to be at least some market for it so players keep producing it. And bots can't do what a lot of crafters do, which is sit in cities giving newbies gear away for free or crafting for a small tip if someone can provide the mats.

As to your dilemma on whether you should use them or not because SE doesn't enforce it as much as you think they should, character is what you do when others aren't looking. If you want to accept cheating, you're going to accept cheating, and find any number of excuses why it's not bad. That doesn't make it not bad.