Risk Factor. Can I have it?

[Geesus]

Yeah... don't see that happening. I do hope content becomes more of a challenge in the future though. Right now with every patch content becomes easier. For example, when Dzemael Darkhold was first released as a dungeon, you actually had to have a plan and execute that plan well in order to win. Now a few patches later all you need are a few people in crap gear and you can burn through darkhold like a hot knife through butter. Seriously, this junk has got to stop getting easier and easier.

Darkhold didn't require skill it required you RUNNING through it because the spawn rate was so fast you had no choice but to do so. Running through a dungeon is not skill.

As for the difficulty of the "camps", yeah they're a joke for the most part especially if you are with your LS or a PUG that has experience in doing that camp but, with the link system and the ability for mobs to "call for help" it's not going to act the same as pulling was in XI. Also, not sure about anyone else but that system of ok stand here pull X mob.... little old imho. Did that crap for 3 years in XI.

The NMs inside Zaharak work the same in many ways as the Darkhold run. Run through mobs ASAP b4 they respawn and or you get raped. IDK, honestly, I can agree there could be some changes made to the mobs but overall, when food matters and stats on gear actually matter, I mean doing Ifrit in reindeer gear or as an all Con PT is ridiculous, then you can request harder mobs. Most may say that proves the point that mobs aren't hard OR it proves gear and stats are a joke.

[Matsume]

Totally Agreed, Avraym.

Case in point: as a lvl 5 Pugilist I can aggroe 4 lvl 5 Chigoes at once and take them out unscathed in my reindeer outfit.

FFXI: an "Even Prey" mandragora in windhurst could kill you if you weren't being careful, no links fully geared for that matter.

Lack of difficulty and challenging content has been brought up time and time again, and, essentially ties into the sense of accomplishment. There is no sense of accomplishment when a friend can power level all your battleclasses to 40 in one week, and then you go and kill Ifrit 100 times to obtain 7/7 ifrit weapons. It just feels tedious and repetitive.

Leveling in Natalan against wolves 45-50 is a case in point. With a Full Party of 8 those wolves go down so quickly yielding 700-1200 exp per kill, the levels just fly by so quickly there is hardly any sense of accomplishment or dedication involved. People don't really feel like they have "mastered" anything much less have any "skills" seeing as a player can literally afk to go cook dinner and come back 30 mins later having gained a level. This scenario would have been unthinkable in the first few years of FFXI.

This is not a post asking for FFXIV to resemble FFXI any more than it already does, but rather a simple comparison and analysis of the basic differences involved in leveling and experience points gain. And yet, the same can be said in regards the main quests, and missions.

I would prefer content that is 10x more difficult to accomplish with 1/10th the repetition involved.

[Morticous]

risk factor yes. we need more to work towards and more risk in doing it. no more of this maxing every job in 6 months like everyone is doing (i know my jobs aren't but that's because I'm not interested in the other jobs). We need a good balance of quantity and quality.

[syntaxlies]

One of the problems with FFXIV's content, is the lack of risk and also mob strength, wether its a solo fight or a group fight.

It's very rare in a group situation where you have to be "careful" of your pulls, or where you don't just pile drive through a group chain in seconds, Save Dzemael Darkhold in early release, but that was before the many reforms we've seen.

A lot of people complain that clearing mobs is like fighting straw dolls. No challenge. No element of risk. Hell, you can pull 10+ monsters as a group pull in some of the toughest areas in our level range, and generally walk away unscathed (In relation to group/level size of course)

I'm hoping that at least one of the two new raids will provide actual tactics.

Remember in FFXI when we had to designate pullers and a pull camp? And even then some things could go wrong. I don't want the game to be like that all over, but in some cases, pulls should have to be well planned in association with the risk.

Also, the story quest fights were child plays at best. Which is fine, because its introducting you to the game as a new player. But I personally have higher expectations with job quests.

I'm also hoping that Job quests will involve solo fights, where gear and player skill makes or breaks the difference. I mean the sort of fights In any previous final fantasy, where you knew gear/food preperation was key because the fight was so tough. Given how easy it is to level in this game, we should at LEAST retain wearing appropriate gear.

im not sure if this helps at all but they have new episodes of fear factor

[Shyd]

I laugh at gear damage especially because of all the STACKS and STACKS of dark matter i have from doing primals. So death is really only an inconvenience in this game, in the fact i have to un-equip gear, repair it, put it back on, and wait a few mins for timers to be up. Plus weakness, but all this does is make you wait a few mins.

[syntaxlies]

I laugh at gear damage especially because of all the STACKS and STACKS of dark matter i have from doing primals. So death is really only an inconvenience in this game, in the fact i have to un-equip gear, repair it, put it back on, and wait a few mins for timers to be up. Plus weakness, but all this does is make you wait a few mins.

they nerfed weakness thuogh. its only 5-10% now, unless you get brink of death, thats not good to have,lol

[Shyd]

they nerfed weakness thuogh. its only 5-10% now, unless you get brink of death, thats not good to have,lol

Yep yep that's basically what i mean. If i died doing something however, more then likely i would want weakness to wear for the extra hp's before i attempt again, cos i definitely don't want brink of death hehe.

[Geesus]

Totally Agreed, Avraym.

Case in point: as a lvl 5 Pugilist I can aggroe 4 lvl 5 Chigoes at once and take them out unscathed in my reindeer outfit.

FFXI: an "Even Prey" mandragora in windhurst could kill you if you weren't being careful, no links fully geared for that matter.

Lack of difficulty and challenging content has been brought up time and time again, and, essentially ties into the sense of accomplishment. There is no sense of accomplishment when a friend can power level all your battleclasses to 40 in one week, and then you go and kill Ifrit 100 times to obtain 7/7 ifrit weapons. It just feels tedious and repetitive.

Leveling in Natalan against wolves 45-50 is a case in point. With a Full Party of 8 those wolves go down so quickly yielding 700-1200 exp per kill, the levels just fly by so quickly there is hardly any sense of accomplishment or dedication involved. People don't really feel like they have "mastered" anything much less have any "skills" seeing as a player can literally afk to go cook dinner and come back 30 mins later having gained a level. This scenario would have been unthinkable in the first few years of FFXI.

This is not a post asking for FFXIV to resemble FFXI any more than it already does, but rather a simple comparison and analysis of the basic differences involved in leveling and experience points gain. And yet, the same can be said in regards the main quests, and missions.

I would prefer content that is 10x more difficult to accomplish with 1/10th the repetition involved.

And what does making the content "harder" do for your sense of accomplishment? Do you think those people, like myself who have done Ifrit idk... like the 50 times this weekend and haven't gotten drops makes it feel like I accomplished something? Sure wolves are cake so what? At least I'm actually playing the jobs unlike others who get PL'd all the way there and have no idea how to play their jobs. Same issue with Mana burns and such in XI. Making it more difficult to kill something doesn't induce a feeling of accomplishment personally but having it easy doesn't either.

As for your example of your PUG ... dare you to ask a new player with no idea how 14 works if THEY think doing that is easy or hard. lol For you and I with jobs leveled such as Con for Cure or other jobs we can drop abilities into, sure we can run it naked and survive but that doesn't mean it's not challenging. Freaking Swarms are STILL a PITA compared to other mobs especially 1 or 2 lvls above you. But Marmots, may not be.

So I'm curious why for you Matsume, why does making something incredibly hard make you feel like you "did" something?

[Matsume]

I laugh at gear damage especially because of all the STACKS and STACKS of dark matter i have from doing primals. So death is really only an inconvenience in this game, in the fact i have to un-equip gear, repair it, put it back on, and wait a few mins for timers to be up. Plus weakness, but all this does is make you wait a few mins.

Another point i meant to bring up. No one cares about dying in FFXIV, where as in FFXI if you died you lose exp and *gasp* sometimes DELEVELED!!!

This was actually a good thing. It provided the "push" part of the "push and pull" towards end game and long term interest. The "pull" was the fact that it was hard to level up, so being lvl 75 anything was an achievement in it's own. Low level players looked up to lvl 75s in their shiny AF armor and attracted them as much as did the hard to get weapons and gear that also provided a "pull" towards end game.

The exp loss per death coupled with the difficulty of gaining exp provided the perfect balance between incentive towards lvling up and disincentive against carelesness that would cause death. And, considering that if you died your party was likely to die and EVERYONE would be penalized, that alone was another incentive pushing people towards paying attention, gearing themselves out, and being extra careful with top notch strategy and awareness.

[syntaxlies]

Another point i meant to bring up. No one cares about dying in FFXIV, where as in FFXI if you died you lose exp and *gasp* sometimes DELEVELED!!!

This was actually a good thing. It provided the "push" part of the "push and pull" towards end game and long term interest. The "pull" was the fact that it was hard to level up, so being lvl 75 anything was an achievement in it's own. Low level players looked up to lvl 75s in their shiny AF armor and attracted them as much as did the hard to get weapons and gear that also provided a "pull" towards end game.

The exp loss per death coupled with the difficulty of gaining exp provided the perfect balance between incentive towards lvling up and disincentive against carelesness that would cause death. And, considering that if you died your party was likely to die and EVERYONE would be penalized, that alone was another incentive pushing people towards paying attention, gearing themselves out, and being extra careful with top notch strategy and awareness.

that was ff11 once upon a time. someone in my shell got lvl 50 in a matter of hours recently they said.