Open World PvP

[Anhra]

If PvP players are the target audience of the FF team then they have done a terrible job, they seem to have developed a massive game with millions of players and nobody plays PvP. If you own a patrol station, who is your target audience? Is it the person wanting to buy a Snickers? or a 20 pack? I think we can both agree your target audience should be drivers.

All of the argument like this in this thread always seem to assume the tail is wagging the dog and not the other way around. "it would be popular if it was better" No, it's poor because nobody plays it so it gets no love from the Dev team, that's because the target audience of FF MMO' s always has been PvE players and the player base it's built up reflects that.

Squeenix target audience is not PvE players, it is CASUAL players and the Dev's expect that anyone who reached engame, is suppoest to carry all of them trough all the content, even if it means that youre the one carrying all the weight. Even PvE content is literally starving from endgame content outside of raiding.

Back to the matter of PvP, it is poor in design because they lack the understanding that PvP is not made to be a casual thing in a MMORPG. Unless they take the risk of reworking things from scratch, which in turn might attract more players overall, things arent going to change for FFXIV PvP. Simply adding another Mode and then call it a day, simply wont do it, we have seen how far this kind of thing got us when they added Onsal Hakair and Rival Wings Hidden Gorge, and it will definitely happen again.

[Artemiz]

Squeenix target audience is not PvE players, it is CASUAL players and the Dev's expect that anyone who reached engame, is suppoest to carry all of them trough all the content, even if it means that youre the one carrying all the weight. Even PvE content is literally starving from endgame content outside of raiding.

Back to the matter of PvP, it is poor in design because they lack the understanding that PvP is not made to be a casual thing in a MMORPG. Unless they take the risk of reworking things from scratch, which in turn might attract more players overall, things arent going to change for FFXIV PvP. Simply adding another Mode and then call it a day, simply wont do it, we have seen how far this kind of thing got us when they added Onsal Hakair and Rival Wings Hidden Gorge, and it will definitely happen again.

This argument is completely lost on me because I fundamentally and strongly disagree with your definition of casual. You use casual like an ad hominem, I think there are plenty of people who used to be hardcore raiders that became casual as real life dictated it. I also think there are plenty of causal players who care about pulling their weight they just don't have 8 hours a day to play the game.

[NW3]

Obviously, PvP players are not their target audience. So, great!

Is that fair to the paying customers that engage in PvP?

[NW3]

As long as the mode itself exist, they are. Like it or not.

They can’t ignore us forever. Hoping for a AAA MMO PvP experience. The only competitor that is AAA MMO is WoW, both are subscription-based but WoW actually releases a lot of PvP content in each expansion. They even provide PvP players a sense of progression, something you can only find in PvE in FFXIV.

[Anhra]

This argument is completely lost on me because I fundamentally and strongly disagree with your definition of casual. You use casual like an ad hominem, I think there are plenty of people who used to be hardcore raiders that became casual as real life dictated it. I also think there are plenty of causal players who care about pulling their weight they just don't have 8 hours a day to play the game.

A casual is by definition someone who irregulary plays the game whenever he/she feels like it and only aims for a uncorncerned and relaxed playstyle. This is not MY definition about them, but the way how it is as a matter of fact. And i despise the thought that difficult content gets dumbed down for those kind of people, just so that they can continue to play half-heartedly.

[Artemiz]

A casual is by definition someone who irregulary plays the game whenever he/she feels like it

It's a shame your post didn't end here, because this is in fact the only definition of casual. No more, no less.

and only aims for a uncorncerned and relaxed playstyle. This is not MY definition about them, but the way how it is as a matter of fact.

No, just because someone doesn't play every day doesn't mean they expect to be carried as an ice mage. I might put the game on in a bit, I might just go out and socialize instead, I haven't decided yet. I don't have a raid to practice for or attend so I will chose on a whim what I want to do.
By definition, this makes me a casual. I own that title. I also spent a lot of money on Hardware, including a £100 mouse just for this game, and I um, get my friend to count all the damage logs up when I play. I then ask him, after every single run I do how it went, I then use that information to improve. I don't need to improve, I'm not hardcore raiding, but I do it anyway and I don't like it when my friend says I'm not top of the pile. There are many many casuals out there like me.

And i despise the thought that difficult content gets dumbed down for those kind of people,

Stuff did used to be harder, that's true. Do you know who did all the moaning when it was? it wasn't the casuals wiping, it was speed runners moaning about the casuals wiping. Content isn't made easier because casual players can't handle it, it's made easier because roulette players can get toxic at the slightest hint of failure.

You really shouldn't be too hard on the casuals though, who do you think would be paying for PvP if you ever got it, the tiny percentage who pass Ultimate? or the vast majority of the players?

just so that they can continue to play half-heartedly.

Ad hominem.

[Thaciscokidd]

They can’t ignore us forever. Hoping for a AAA MMO PvP experience. The only competitor that is AAA MMO is WoW, both are subscription-based but WoW actually releases a lot of PvP content in each expansion. They even provide PvP players a sense of progression, something you can only find in PvE in FFXIV.

Its possible. The only thing more neglected than PvP is GC ranking and that's pretty close. They add PvP battle grounds and people do them til that they get the reward then no more. PvP is like a hidden feature, besides the Garo event, all you get is the season start and end announcement, no campaigns, no events. All they really have to do is put the rewards somewhere else and you could cull a lot of the backlash.

[Fland]

They can’t ignore us forever. Hoping for a AAA MMO PvP experience. The only competitor that is AAA MMO is WoW, both are subscription-based but WoW actually releases a lot of PvP content in each expansion. They even provide PvP players a sense of progression, something you can only find in PvE in FFXIV.

I mean, SE doesn't have to follow everything that Blizzard does. WoW has it's own PvP, which get more focus, and that's fine. FFXIV has it's own PvP, a side content which doesn't get a lot of focus, and that's fine too. SE just happen to focus on other contents in FFXIV.

Remember that we'll get new PvP contents next expansion. Let's just wait and see how it goes. I'm actually curious since they said it's a small scale one, and I would be glad to see another small scale PvP outside of Feast (and hopefully more to do than simply trying to kill each other).

[SannaR]

Its possible. The only thing more neglected than PvP is GC ranking and that's pretty close. They add PvP battle grounds and people do them til that they get the reward then no more. PvP is like a hidden feature, besides the Garo event, all you get is the season start and end announcement, no campaigns, no events. All they really have to do is put the rewards somewhere else and you could cull a lot of the backlash.

Want to know what also gets less attention and love from the devs? Chocobo racing. It used to be attended to like the weddings. Where only one person was assigned to it. The Weddings got some help meanwhile the one guy on chocobo racing got moved off to a battle team section.

I know which between pvp and racing has gotten more attention from the dev team and its not the one centered around birbs. Still wouldn't want a non opt in pvp mode. Also think people should wait and see what the new mode they're going to be putting in is and how it works before asking for something more or different. As you've said if you give a big enough carrot people who normally don't pvp will pvp just for the rewards. Heck people will pvp as a means to help in leveling.

[Dragonblanco]

It was aimed at anyone who has rolled on a PvP server but then complains when PvP happens....

Complaining about PvP on a pvp server. Getting camped, barred from raids, not being able to farm etc . . .

Look, just because you create an account on a pvp server and want to do it doesn't mean you want to deal with griefing and everything. PvP server means while questing and you see someone you can kill of equal or near equal level, you may end up fighting each other. Or you may end up getting together with friends to go raid a major town. Things like that. But for a lv 80 to go kill lv 10s and camp them, continuously camping just to grief/troll...that's not what a pvp server is about. I mean, I'd be okay with them going and killing someone time or two when they see them, I mean, it's your enemy and why not? But there's always a limit and general idea of respect in these games. People who lose track of that respect for players and forget it's a game, that people need to level and do stuff too...they shouldn't be on these types of platforms. Just my thoughts anyway. I don't get why people want to be complete jerks and then say "you're on a pvp server, that means I can grief you all I want! Go cry to your mama!" or similar stuff...