Paladin balance changes suggestions

[AbremSev]

1) Clemency needs some changes. It's too strong when it's used in normal content and because the job is balanced around using it, it makes Paladin too weak compared to the other tanks when it's not used in high end content. This is bad for Savage/Ultimate because no Paladin actually uses Clemency. I believe this job should be adjusted for how players actually play the game rather than how the devs think Paladin should be played because right now it's just annoying for healers to deal with in fights like TEA and Leviathan Unreal. My suggestion is to make Clemency an ogcd and give it a set number of regenerating charges.

2) Paladins are lacking in CDs for personal mitigation. In UCOB any time my group had a Paladin we always generated an entire extra bar of LB gauge just for having a Paladin in the group. That's how much additional damage Paladin takes compared to other tanks. I'm guessing Paladin has fewer mitigation CDs because their Clemency is so powerful. This kind of ends up going back to my first point, Paladins don't actually use Clemency outside of normal content.

3) I'd like for Passage of Arms to get the same fix as AST's Collective Unconsciousness instead of needing to be channeled. The ability is already limited by the need to be positioned behind the PLD when it's used and right now it's just janky and not as competitive with the more versatile and consistently useful Heart of Light, Shake and Dark Missionary.

HPS by tank as of patch 5.5 (Self healing)

WAR-5.5k
DRK- 3.5k
GNB- 2.5k
PLD- 0k

Sure, everything is doable with a Paladin and most of the time it's not a problem. However any time a fight does large amounts of sustained tank damage over a long period of time it becomes really apparent just how bad Paladin actually is right now compared to the other tanks.

EDIT: If any mechanic in savage causes you guys to drop even just one GCD you all scream bloody freaking murder, but when a single job causes me to drop 5-6 GCD's vs other jobs it's nothing but shitposting from you guys. Imagine how you would react if bringing a DNC to a fight would cause you personally to lose 5 GCDs. PLD is squishy. I'm losing uptime, and I'm suggesting fixes. PLD right now is worth less than a GNB straight up failing to use Camo and Aurora and it costs me. That's how bad PLD is right now in certain fights.

If your post is some variation of

1) "Paladin doesn't need to be balanced at the high end because it's not content I care about"
2) "It doesn't need a fix because you're just a healer and I don't care if you lose GCDs"

Then please don't post here.

[Ilenya]

I...I don't think Paladin is "balanced" around using Clemency... Also Paladins by default have a mitigation tool the other tanks don't have, for what that is worth overall.

[Delis]

Who told you Paladins are balanced around using x amount of Clemency per min? Paladins for mitigation, has sheltron which we can pretty much spam, rampart, sentinal, passage of arms and Hallowed Ground (imo the best tank invuln)

[Jijifli]

Uh...

Yes man, we're all just playing Paladin wrong, even in top play, you have the big brain on how it's played.

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

2) Paladins are lacking in CDs for mitigation. In UCOB any time my group had a Paladin we always generated an entire extra bar of LB gauge just for having a Paladin in the group. That's how much additional damage Paladin takes compared to other tanks. I'm guessing Paladin has fewer mitigation CDs because their Clemency is so powerful. This kind of ends up going back to my first point, Paladins don't actually use Clemency outside of normal content.

IIRC, they get less personal mitigation due to the fact they have 1 extra raid mitigation tool instead. (veil + Passage vs every other tank only having a single raid CD.) If they got more personal mitigation, one of the two would have to be axed in exchange. Otherwise they'd just be as tanky as the rest and give more raid utility than the other 3, practically guaranteeing them a slot in any comp.

Also IIRC, DRK doesn't always have more mitigation than PLD does. Any fight that has physical tankbusters, DRK's dark mind is literally worthless for those buster's damage. (E1s, E4s, E6s, E8s, E10s, E12s, Ucob (flatten, Ravensbeak, Death Sentence, plummet, bahamut's claw)). Camouflage also loses the parry bonus if the buster is magic.

3) I'd like for Passage of Arms to get the same fix as AST's Collective Unconsciousness instead of needing to be channeled. The ability is already limited by the need to be positioned behind the PLD when it's used and right now it's just janky and not as competitive with the more versatile and consistently useful Heart of Light, Shake and Dark Missionary.

This I would definitely agree with though. Some nice QoL for Passage would be much appreciated.

Also, hps isn't really the most comparable thing as PLD is built to mitigate damage preemptively rather than recover it back. PLD has natural block while the other 3 tanks can't. So while they're not recovering HP through their normal rotation, they are naturally taking less damage from autos across a fight without factoring in CD usage. If PLD had the same hps as the other tanks, they'd be straight out way stronger at taking auto & residual damage through a fight due to having hps + block + parry.

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

Wut. Shelltron lasts for 6s. it can last for multiple hits easily when timed. Use 100 gauge and you can get 12s.

[AbremSev]

Uh...

Yes man, we're all just playing Paladin wrong, even in top play, you have the big brain on how it's played.

This is dumb, that's not what I think and you're just saying it that way to be a dick. It's not how I think the job should be played, that's how the devs think Paladin should be played which is why they gave Paladin Clemency. Obviously it's not good to use Clemency and nor should Paladins use it. That's a problem for how the job is designed that they're given a completely useless self-sustain ability.

[Ilenya]

This is dumb, that's not what I think and you're just saying it that way to be a dick. It's not how I think the job should be played, that's how the devs think Paladin should be played which is why they gave Paladin Clemency. Obviously it's not good to use Clemency and nor should Paladins use it. That's a problem for how the job is designed that they're given a completely useless self-sustain ability.

Devs at the very least used to not count Healer DPS for fights, which caused all *sorts* of silliness back when Cleric Stance was a thing. Healers at least are well aware that "What the devs (apparently) think" and "How the playerbase uses it" are two massively different things.

[AbremSev]

I...I don't think Paladin is "balanced" around using Clemency... Also Paladins by default have a mitigation tool the other tanks don't have, for what that is worth overall.

Well it's just Paladins are a lot more of a pain to heal in certain content in the game than any other tank. Why would the devs give a self-sustain tool to Paladins if they didn't want Paladins to use it? Like clearly the spell exists for Paladins to actually use. This coupled with the fact that without using clemency they're just so much worse than the other tanks at taking autos makes it apparent that the job was at some point balanced around using Clemency.

[Ilenya]

Paladins are better at dealing with autos than other jobs just by having Blocks...