Starter healer... WHM?

[IceBlueNinja]

Ruin II is not an upgraded version of Ruin, it is a different spell. It's an instant damage spell. It's meant to be used when you want to move or use out of global cooldown actions like fairy commands.

Too bad there is far more whm/ast combinations in savage and hard content vs sch to me will be inferior to whm ast, you gotta be wasting all these precious time to enhance your heals to make it better than whm/ast which its still dont win. Sure you can cast gravity + benefic 2 its call light speed. can you art of war + alqo ? indom still maybe a few potency stronger than helios or medica but the problem is you need aether to use it + its on a cool down of 35 seconds while helios and medica is always ready available so that is how indom still loses , in savage/raid content can a sch really counter a boss who does 2 hard aoe back to back vs whm/ast? I doubt it. Ast can simply use earthstar, upgrade horoscope or even basic horoscope or whm can assize/plentary+rapture a team easily to full health effectively vs sch.

Also am not talking medica 1 or regular helios only am talking the 2 versions as well, remember whm medica 2 and di ast aspected helios applies a regen and to top it off ast can also slap on celestial oppo that grands another regen to boot on top of aspected helios that is 1400 potency of heal compared to indom mere 400 only burst. Finally there is whm with cure 3 1500 burst potency very bad box though but that too indom far loses . back on lustrate umm benenfic 2 and cure 2 is 700 potency and lust is 600 so why did you say lustrate is 25 pot weaker than cure 2/benefic 2?

[Semirhage]

Too bad there is far more whm/ast combinations in savage and hard content vs sch to me will be inferior to whm ast, you gotta be wasting all these precious time to enhance your heals to make it better than whm/ast which its still dont win. Sure you can cast gravity + benefic 2 its call light speed. can you art of war + alqo ? indom still maybe a few potency stronger than helios or medica but the problem is you need aether to use it + its on a cool down of 35 seconds while helios and medica is always ready available so that is how indom still loses , in savage/raid content can a sch really counter a boss who does 2 hard aoe back to back vs whm/ast? I doubt it. Ast can simply use earthstar, upgrade horoscope or even basic horoscope or whm can assize/plentary+rapture a team easily to full health effectively vs sch.

Also am not talking medica 1 or regular helios only am talking the 2 versions as well, remember whm medica 2 and di ast aspected helios applies a regen and to top it off ast can also slap on celestial oppo that grands another regen to boot on top of aspected helios that is 1400 potency of heal compared to indom mere 400 only burst. Finally there is whm with cure 3 1500 burst potency very bad box though but that too indom far loses . back on lustrate umm benenfic 2 and cure 2 is 700 potency and lust is 600 so why did you say lustrate is 25 pot weaker than cure 2/benefic 2?

oGCD heals that don't interrupt your damage spells are head and shoulders more useful than GCD heals if you're talking about a job's potential. Indom is better than Medica 2 simply because you don't have to hard stop your damage spells to use it. The potency is mostly immaterial; most combinations of two(ish) AOE heals will bring a party from near-empty to near-full. If you can do that without touching your GCD, it's even better.

He meant you can't cast Benefic 2 while spamming Gravity because neither one is an oGCD. You have to interrupt one to do the other. Lightspeed and Gravity let you use something like Essential Dignity, which *is* weaving damage and healing together. Scholar just happens to have an AOE that allows them that weave space without using Lightspeed.

[IceBlueNinja]

oGCD heals that don't interrupt your damage spells are head and shoulders more useful than GCD heals if you're talking about a job's potential. Indom is better than Medica 2 simply because you don't have to hard stop your damage spells to use it. The potency is mostly immaterial; most combinations of two(ish) AOE heals will bring a party from near-empty to near-full. If you can do that without touching your GCD, it's even better.

He meant you can't cast Benefic 2 while spamming Gravity because neither one is an oGCD. You have to interrupt one to do the other. Lightspeed and Gravity let you use something like Essential Dignity, which *is* weaving damage and healing together. Scholar just happens to have an AOE that allows them that weave space without using Lightspeed.

Ah thanks understood =)

[Imora]

Ah, I see.

Guess I have to make space for it. :/

[Roeshel]

Too bad there is far more whm/ast combinations in savage and hard content vs sch to me will be inferior to whm ast, you gotta be wasting all these precious time to enhance your heals to make it better than whm/ast which its still dont win.

SCH's ogcds feel underwhelming that's why they are not played often.

Compared to diurnal ast who has :
Earthly Star - 720
Celestial Opposition - 700
Collective unconscious - 500
Horoscope - 200
In total - 2120 raid-wide healing potency every minute for free without any resource management. We can even leave out Horoscope and you still acquire 1920 cure potency by pressing 3 buttons while spamming malefic.

Per-minute Sch has:
Aetherflow - 3 aether stacks, needed for heals
Whispering Dawn - 537
Indomitability - 400
Sacred Soil - 500
Fey Blessing - 224
The last aether charge can be used for ED but since we are discussing how much sch can heal per minute we will use it on sacred soil again (it has 30s cd) for the extra 500 cure potency.
So in total, you can get 2,161 raid-wide cure potency from a sch per minute without any gcd heals. Just a little bit more than an ast but you have to press more buttons.

Sch also has on 2 min cooldown summon seraph which can execute Consolation two times for 768 potency in total (shields included). However, when it comes to gcd aoe healing sch can't even hope to compete with whm and ast. But that's not that big of a deal because gcd healing should be avoided whenever possible. Even in savage where healing can get intense, you won't need to use gcd if everyone is using their mitigation tools and playing properly at least that's my experience so far. Unfortunately, that happens only in log runs.

[IceBlueNinja]

SCH's ogcds feel underwhelming that's why they are not played often.

Compared to diurnal ast who has :
Earthly Star - 720
Celestial Opposition - 700
Collective unconscious - 500
Horoscope - 200
In total - 2120 raid-wide healing potency every minute for free without any resource management. We can even leave out Horoscope and you still acquire 1920 cure potency by pressing 3 buttons while spamming malefic.

Per-minute Sch has:
Aetherflow - 3 aether stacks, needed for heals
Whispering Dawn - 537
Indomitability - 400
Sacred Soil - 500
Fey Blessing - 224
The last aether charge can be used for ED but since we are discussing how much sch can heal per minute we will use it on sacred soil again (it has 30s cd) for the extra 500 cure potency.
So in total, you can get 2,161 raid-wide cure potency from a sch per minute without any gcd heals. Just a little bit more than an ast but you have to press more buttons.

Sch also has on 2 min cooldown summon seraph which can execute Consolation two times for 768 potency in total (shields included). However, when it comes to gcd aoe healing sch can't even hope to compete with whm and ast. But that's not that big of a deal because gcd healing should be avoided whenever possible. Even in savage where healing can get intense, you won't need to use gcd if everyone is using their mitigation tools and playing properly at least that's my experience so far. Unfortunately, that happens only in log runs.

Agreed. I credit you and friends who play it. Yall patience and adaption to it is amazing. Sadly most people dont see migi as much, but I do so I agree with you there as well too as a more noct type player ast it feels much more challeging and engaging vs di ast that its too powerful and lay back for me to use . I strict noct with whm even if no one likes it and try grab it before another ast. Only will di with sch since then I have no choice. In reality it is how the player uses a class. Like a fighter game the most under rated can be just as capable and dangerous as a meta use fighter in the right hands of someone. Di may be stronger in some aspects but so can noct too.

Both anyway at 74 give 1 something via intersect then both of the other your not in via neutral at 80. I just feel over regens is quite unnecessary via di ast and whm combo. Well while not all like it I like the thought of force 1 pure and 1 shield for EW

[Deceptus]

I know it's a bit off topic but I always think the best starting healer is SCH.

You have the fairy there to constantly be healing if you're slacking a bit.

You can switch to SMN to do the MSQ faster.

[Rilifane]

snip

Sacred Soil is actually 600 potency since they changed ground target aoes to give an instant tick upon placing them. Which makes SS the strongest heal ingame because its 10% mitigation puts it ahead in pretty much every scenario of even Earthly Star for aoe heal and makes it comparable with Excog for ST in many cases aswell.

Too bad there is far more whm/ast combinations in savage and hard content vs sch to me will be inferior to whm ast, you gotta be wasting all these precious time to enhance your heals to make it better than whm/ast which its still dont win

AST/ WHM is so popular because WHM is popular, not because it's stronger.
And a class being popular doesn't automatically mean it's strong, it just means its popular for whatever reason.
In case of WHM it's mostly because some common misconceptions that keep getting spread by a community of people with half-knowledge at best.
WHM is lauded as the straightforward healing powerhouse when it's in fact the opposite.

WHM is:

• very immobile, by far the most immobile class in the entire game
• it's very limited mobility is tied to using instants meant for healing and a dps loss outside edge cases
• very few weaving slots
• it's limited weaving slots mostly tied to using instants meant for healing and dps loss outside edge cases
• by far the lowest dps neutral aoe and ST healing potency of all 3 healers
• much lower mitigation compared to SCH
• suffering from conflicting design of skills

Meaning WHM requires a highly coordinated party with well-planned mitigation, good positioning from everyone and a co heal that can carry the majority of healing to be effective - and even with all that it's still behind AST/ SCH by several 1000 combined healer dps across all gameplay levels and bosses.
The only unique strengths WHM has are Bene and Cure III but I can think of exactly one mechanic on one boss when it was strong: Terminal Relativity on e12s P2. The very last mechanic of the last boss.

SCH has ghosting issues and several skills make no sense, like Fey Illumination only increasing healing magic and not affecting the fairy or Seraph locking you out of other fairy skills instead of being an all-around upgrade and they constantly need to reposition their fairy after it resetted from Seraph.
Nonetheless, it's overall far stronger than WHM and it doesn't even require the party, but espcecially your co heal, to adjust around your countless weaknesses.

SCH's dps neutral healing potency is quite strong and it doesn't suffer the same issue as WHM when your healing is more or less dps neutral for a short time and then completely locks you out of dpsing once those few options are exhausted.
It's much more gradual with SCH, meaning they don't suffer noticable dps loss unless the party is really, really hilariously bad.

There's also the benefit of AST being able to go diurnal even in early prog with a SCH, meaning it can use its overall stronger toolkit instead of using the overall weaker heals of Noct just so they can have unlimited shields on demand in addition to Neutral/ Seraph.
Between Seraph and Neutral, you already have plenty of shields and in the few cases that's not enough, Succor may be weaker than Noct Asp Helios but will do the job just fine.

I know it's a bit off topic but I always think the best starting healer is SCH.

You have the fairy there to constantly be healing if you're slacking a bit.

You can switch to SMN to do the MSQ faster.

By now I usually recommend SCH to people who want to try healer aswell for those exact reasons.
MSQing as a healer is the sloggiest slog of all slogs and the auto heal makes it so much easier to incorporate dps from the start with more room for error instead of falling for the classic "I'll just heal everyone first until I'm suuuper confident nothing can possibly go wrong and then use one dps skill".

[Imora]

Yeah I already did msq. This is just a "I want a healer at 80."

I'm almost 50 on SCH, gonna see how that plays at higher levels I guess. Bonus points, Selene matches my glamour.

I'm a bit concerned about output though. When I tank, if I get a scholar they can't keep me up on big pulls. I don't want to be that healer.

[Rilifane]

Yeah I already did msq. This is just a "I want a healer at 80."

I'm almost 50 on SCH, gonna see how that plays at higher levels I guess. Bonus points, Selene matches my glamour.

I'm a bit concerned about output though. When I tank, if I get a scholar they can't keep me up on big pulls. I don't want to be that healer.

SCH has it fairly easy to keep a tank healthy in big pulls at all levels.
Use Whispering Dawn for ST healing aswell in big pulls, use Fey Illumantion when you notice you'll have to Adlo spam soon, don't use Sacred Soil ST until it gets the regen trait at 78, pre-shield between pulls.
And once you've unlocked these skills: pre-Excog when you get it between pulls, not just during a pull.
Dissipate either at the end of a pull for 3 free AF + stronger pre-pull Adlo or if you need a lot of burst healing through Adlo + Lustrate spam during a pull. Missing out on auto heals will be outweighed by the gain of additional AF + higher healing magic potency.
Use Aetherpact at the start of a pull after getting WD out, not just once a tank's HP starts plummeting.
Use Recitation on Excog before a pull.

The mistake many SCHs make is that they treat their tools as emergency tools and use them too late. If someone Aetherpacts only when they start having trouble with keeping the tank alive, it's too late. It's about preventing it from happing in the first place. Or they ignore WD or traited SS for tank healing just because it's an aoe heal. Or they spam Physick because it has the higher burst healing than Adlo although Adlo is far stronger in pulls where the tank gets thrashed.