Starter healer... WHM?

[Rilifane]

snip

Sacred Soil is actually 600 potency since they changed ground target aoes to give an instant tick upon placing them. Which makes SS the strongest heal ingame because its 10% mitigation puts it ahead in pretty much every scenario of even Earthly Star for aoe heal and makes it comparable with Excog for ST in many cases aswell.

Too bad there is far more whm/ast combinations in savage and hard content vs sch to me will be inferior to whm ast, you gotta be wasting all these precious time to enhance your heals to make it better than whm/ast which its still dont win

AST/ WHM is so popular because WHM is popular, not because it's stronger.
And a class being popular doesn't automatically mean it's strong, it just means its popular for whatever reason.
In case of WHM it's mostly because some common misconceptions that keep getting spread by a community of people with half-knowledge at best.
WHM is lauded as the straightforward healing powerhouse when it's in fact the opposite.

WHM is:

• very immobile, by far the most immobile class in the entire game
• it's very limited mobility is tied to using instants meant for healing and a dps loss outside edge cases
• very few weaving slots
• it's limited weaving slots mostly tied to using instants meant for healing and dps loss outside edge cases
• by far the lowest dps neutral aoe and ST healing potency of all 3 healers
• much lower mitigation compared to SCH
• suffering from conflicting design of skills

Meaning WHM requires a highly coordinated party with well-planned mitigation, good positioning from everyone and a co heal that can carry the majority of healing to be effective - and even with all that it's still behind AST/ SCH by several 1000 combined healer dps across all gameplay levels and bosses.
The only unique strengths WHM has are Bene and Cure III but I can think of exactly one mechanic on one boss when it was strong: Terminal Relativity on e12s P2. The very last mechanic of the last boss.

SCH has ghosting issues and several skills make no sense, like Fey Illumination only increasing healing magic and not affecting the fairy or Seraph locking you out of other fairy skills instead of being an all-around upgrade and they constantly need to reposition their fairy after it resetted from Seraph.
Nonetheless, it's overall far stronger than WHM and it doesn't even require the party, but espcecially your co heal, to adjust around your countless weaknesses.

SCH's dps neutral healing potency is quite strong and it doesn't suffer the same issue as WHM when your healing is more or less dps neutral for a short time and then completely locks you out of dpsing once those few options are exhausted.
It's much more gradual with SCH, meaning they don't suffer noticable dps loss unless the party is really, really hilariously bad.

There's also the benefit of AST being able to go diurnal even in early prog with a SCH, meaning it can use its overall stronger toolkit instead of using the overall weaker heals of Noct just so they can have unlimited shields on demand in addition to Neutral/ Seraph.
Between Seraph and Neutral, you already have plenty of shields and in the few cases that's not enough, Succor may be weaker than Noct Asp Helios but will do the job just fine.

I know it's a bit off topic but I always think the best starting healer is SCH.

You have the fairy there to constantly be healing if you're slacking a bit.

You can switch to SMN to do the MSQ faster.

By now I usually recommend SCH to people who want to try healer aswell for those exact reasons.
MSQing as a healer is the sloggiest slog of all slogs and the auto heal makes it so much easier to incorporate dps from the start with more room for error instead of falling for the classic "I'll just heal everyone first until I'm suuuper confident nothing can possibly go wrong and then use one dps skill".

[Sighearth]

SCH's ogcds feel underwhelming that's why they are not played often.

Compared to diurnal ast who has :
Earthly Star - 720
Celestial Opposition - 700
Collective unconscious - 500
Horoscope - 200
In total - 2120 raid-wide healing potency every minute for free without any resource management. We can even leave out Horoscope and you still acquire 1920 cure potency by pressing 3 buttons while spamming malefic.

Per-minute Sch has:
Aetherflow - 3 aether stacks, needed for heals
Whispering Dawn - 537
Indomitability - 400
Sacred Soil - 500
Fey Blessing - 224
The last aether charge can be used for ED but since we are discussing how much sch can heal per minute we will use it on sacred soil again (it has 30s cd) for the extra 500 cure potency.
So in total, you can get 2,161 raid-wide cure potency from a sch per minute without any gcd heals. Just a little bit more than an ast but you have to press more buttons.

Sch also has on 2 min cooldown summon seraph which can execute Consolation two times for 768 potency in total (shields included). However, when it comes to gcd aoe healing sch can't even hope to compete with whm and ast. But that's not that big of a deal because gcd healing should be avoided whenever possible. Even in savage where healing can get intense, you won't need to use gcd if everyone is using their mitigation tools and playing properly at least that's my experience so far. Unfortunately, that happens only in log runs.

Just a correction, soil is 600 potency. You forgot the insta tick you get when placing it.

[Imora]

Ah, I see.

Guess I have to make space for it. :/

[Deceptus]

I know it's a bit off topic but I always think the best starting healer is SCH.

You have the fairy there to constantly be healing if you're slacking a bit.

You can switch to SMN to do the MSQ faster.

[Imora]

Yeah I already did msq. This is just a "I want a healer at 80."

I'm almost 50 on SCH, gonna see how that plays at higher levels I guess. Bonus points, Selene matches my glamour.

I'm a bit concerned about output though. When I tank, if I get a scholar they can't keep me up on big pulls. I don't want to be that healer.

[Rilifane]

Yeah I already did msq. This is just a "I want a healer at 80."

I'm almost 50 on SCH, gonna see how that plays at higher levels I guess. Bonus points, Selene matches my glamour.

I'm a bit concerned about output though. When I tank, if I get a scholar they can't keep me up on big pulls. I don't want to be that healer.

SCH has it fairly easy to keep a tank healthy in big pulls at all levels.
Use Whispering Dawn for ST healing aswell in big pulls, use Fey Illumantion when you notice you'll have to Adlo spam soon, don't use Sacred Soil ST until it gets the regen trait at 78, pre-shield between pulls.
And once you've unlocked these skills: pre-Excog when you get it between pulls, not just during a pull.
Dissipate either at the end of a pull for 3 free AF + stronger pre-pull Adlo or if you need a lot of burst healing through Adlo + Lustrate spam during a pull. Missing out on auto heals will be outweighed by the gain of additional AF + higher healing magic potency.
Use Aetherpact at the start of a pull after getting WD out, not just once a tank's HP starts plummeting.
Use Recitation on Excog before a pull.

The mistake many SCHs make is that they treat their tools as emergency tools and use them too late. If someone Aetherpacts only when they start having trouble with keeping the tank alive, it's too late. It's about preventing it from happing in the first place. Or they ignore WD or traited SS for tank healing just because it's an aoe heal. Or they spam Physick because it has the higher burst healing than Adlo although Adlo is far stronger in pulls where the tank gets thrashed.

[IceBlueNinja]

SCH has it fairly easy to keep a tank healthy in big pulls at all levels.
Use Whispering Dawn for ST healing aswell in big pulls, use Fey Illumantion when you notice you'll have to Adlo spam soon, don't use Sacred Soil ST until it gets the regen trait at 78, pre-shield between pulls.
And once you've unlocked these skills: pre-Excog when you get it between pulls, not just during a pull.
Dissipate either at the end of a pull for 3 free AF + stronger pre-pull Adlo or if you need a lot of burst healing through Adlo + Lustrate spam during a pull. Missing out on auto heals will be outweighed by the gain of additional AF + higher healing magic potency.
Use Aetherpact at the start of a pull after getting WD out, not just once a tank's HP starts plummeting.
Use Recitation on Excog before a pull.

The mistake many SCHs make is that they treat their tools as emergency tools and use them too late. If someone Aetherpacts only when they start having trouble with keeping the tank alive, it's too late. It's about preventing it from happing in the first place. Or they ignore WD or traited SS for tank healing just because it's an aoe heal. Or they spam Physick because it has the higher burst healing than Adlo although Adlo is far stronger in pulls where the tank gets thrashed.

Very fair and true and the third paragraph is my fav part. May I ask about something? A friend of mine does old exs such as arr for fun no echo ilvl mini and i guess the bis for that. he state ifrit is very intense with heals but the comp is whm/ sch. I ask why not ast/sch this was probably before we got the nice mp rework and draw now gives mp back. Cause I think it was one of those reasons but or something about ast kit not good for it. am thinking cards and div is there aspected helios is there and ed and what not and medic 2 is too expensive and whm themself suffer mp issue under heavens ward things. Would a Di ast not be more viable now even in old exes like arr ones than whm?

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

The mistake many SCHs make is that they treat their tools as emergency tools and use them too late. If someone Aetherpacts only when they start having trouble with keeping the tank alive, it's too late. It's about preventing it from happing in the first place. Or they ignore WD or traited SS for tank healing just because it's an aoe heal. Or they spam Physick because it has the higher burst healing than Adlo although Adlo is far stronger in pulls where the tank gets thrashed.

Well said.

To be frank SCHs can contribute some disgusting amount of healing across an encounter duration. They’re just not as obvious as their sibling healers in doing so & thus often overlooked by newer healers.

[Roeshel]

Meaning WHM requires a highly coordinated party with well-planned mitigation, good positioning from everyone and a co heal that can carry the majority of healing to be effective - and even with all that it's still behind AST/ SCH by several 1000 combined healer dps across all gameplay levels and bosses.
The only unique strengths WHM has are Bene and Cure III but I can think of exactly one mechanic on one boss when it was strong: Terminal Relativity on e12s P2. The very last mechanic of the last boss.

This is just wrong. First of all, it's savage content so it is to be expected that people are supposed to make full use of their kit. Players should use their mitigation tools regardless of whether they have a whm in the party or not. It's not about being highly coordinated, it's about learning how to play.
Second, outside of e12s I haven't seen a raidwide that wipes the party with full hp bars when it's not properly mitigated. I think it was called Earthen Fury and only tanks survived back then. A well-coordinated party is already required to complete the raid itself and good positioning regardless of whether you have whm or not.
Third, whm's co-healers are not carrying the majority of the healing while dealing more dps than them. You just need to learn your role, learn the fight, don't die and you won't get outdone by your co-healer in terms of rdps and effective healing not overhealing.

Lastly, whm is straightforward when it comes to healing. It's the healer job with the strongest gcd heals. Just in roughly ten seconds of gcd casts, this is the raid-wide cure potency a WHM has if everyone is stacked:
Temperance and Assylum are active
You use plenary
1) Medica II - 520 + 650 regen cure potency
2) Cure III - 975
3) Cure III - 975
4) Afflatus Rapture - 650
5) Assize - 520

That's 4,290 without counting Asylum's regen. When you add it becomes 5,460 total for 24 secs and by using only 4 gcds. Obviously, in no part of the game is such fat heal needed. I just wanted to show that WHM is the straightforward healing powerhouse. The other two jobs can't achieve the same in the span of 24 seconds by using only 4 gcds to heal even if they use all of their ogcds.

[Liam_Harper]

Obviously, in no part of the game is such fat heal needed. I just wanted to show that WHM is the straightforward healing powerhouse.

You countered your own point. WHM's situational 10 seconds of Temp/Plenary/Cure III glory is worthless if nothing in the game requires it, while a consistent supply of short-cd oGCD's that can be weaved at low or no cost and cover every mechanic in a Savage fight are far more valuable. While leveling, WHM is even worse. At lv50, AST is basically a WHM with cards, more mana, cheaper heals, full mobility and ED has a much shorter cd than Bene.

Well... I don't think that's fair.

Whm doesn't have a lot of weaving slots because they don't have many ogds to weave. They have assize, asylum, bene, plenary and temperance. All of them have long cooldown. Divine benison and tetra are almost never used. Usually, if you really want to move or weave more than one ogcd you can just reapply your dot. Only the whm's dot deals damage when cast and I guess it's for that reason. They don't have ruin II like the SCH and 1sec time to weave and move around like AST. You can also use lilies which are the better alternative because you lose only 75 potency per lily whereas the reapplying of the dot is going to cost you 180 damage potency if more than 3 ticks are remaining.

Again you shredded your own argument by yourself. "WHM isn't immobile because it can burn it's own healing lilies, spam its DoT and ignore useful pieces of the toolkit like Tetra and Benison to assist weave". That's immobility. It cripples itself to do basic functions like move or use the full toolkit. Using Dia to move is an absolutely last resort because on top of the 180 potency loss, you misalign Dia with every second Assize. Benison and Tetra can be compared to Celestial Intersection and ED on AST, which we use almost on cooldown. With WHM it isn't because they don't have value, (18 Benison over a fight is a whopping 4500 potency of saved tank healing) it's because it isn't worth crippling yourself for that when your co-heal can handle it instead.

10% mitigation is huge. Probably at least as much as a Succor Shield on average.

Sacred Soil is so strong because it has a 30 cd. That means you can have it on demand for almost any raidwide you like, where Asylum doesn't have that luxury. Again, WHM has big abilities, like Temperance, Bene and Asylum. But things like Essential Dignity, Soil, Excog, Diurnal CU and so on heal or mitigate enough to handle even Savage mechanics and are available often enough to cover them all.

Third, whm's co-healers are not carrying the majority of the healing while dealing more dps than them. You just need to learn your role, learn the fight, don't die and you won't get outdone by your co-healer in terms of rdps and effective healing not overhealing.

If you're not being outdone by your coheal, (particularly AST) you or your co-heal are playing poorly. An AST can heal significantly more than WHM, for free, so trying to reach an equal hps is basically wasting their heals. Even if a GCD heal is needed, you dump it on the AST because a lost Glare is 300 potency and a lost Malefic is 250 potency. And yes, even with all that, at high percentiles WHM has the lowest rdps of all the healers in this Savage tier.

As for your signature, a single good kill on the easiest boss to heal this tier in a speedrun group that skipped Pitch Bog II by a mile does not make you an expert WHM.