About damage essences in Delubrum/Dalriada

[Aelin_Ashryver]

What's the sentiment around always having damage essences ready for pug parties in Delubrum Reginae/Dalriada?

I've been called lazy, dumb, and someone said I had "you don't pay my sub" energy because I don't want to sink Gil or Bozjan clusters into buying fragments. I've almost finished my first relic and I've simply used up the few damage increase essences I had! Swapped jobs to healer/tank when my main, Ninja, didn't have any damage essences left. I then depleted them all for healers/tanks too. I did buy around 35 fragments with 150k Gil to get the skirmisher essence, and I got a whopping 0. The bozjan clusters are being saved up for the expensive mount.

Someone in /shout chat in Dalriada complained that the run was slow because of "selfish people" who didn't use essences. They then suggested to go and cluster farm for a few hours so you can buy fragments, because "you have no excuse not to be using damage essences".

My question is, since when did other people become entitled to my time? When I've ran Castrum 5 times, Delubrum 15 and Dalriada 2, meanwhile using essences whenever I possibly can, in all these raids + while farming fates/CE's in Bozja/Zadnor, it might not be so weird that I don't have them available 24/7? I don't feel like sinking my gil into the fragment roulette or use bozjan clusters, because I want that mount. I'm not gonna go out of my way to grind clusters for hours just to make your run 1 minute faster. If I have the damage essences then of course I'll use them! Like probably everyone else, I also want the run to go as fast as possible. But being hostile to others because they don't have a damage essence in a PUG is unreasonable to me. Go join a fixed party in party finder then! Everyone having a damage essence 24/7 100% of the time is just not realistic!

Thoughts?

Report people who speak to you/about you in such a manner. DF runs will never be efficient, there will always be first timers and people who are out of essences or simply dont wanna use em. If they want a speed run they can get a group together. I have been doing speed runs the last few days. Since cluster efficiency is now improved I have actually bothered to farm some for gil and some essences for DRS etc. Block the toxic ones after you report them and carry on your merry way.

[Liam_Harper]

As for whether or not it's lazy, that's immaterial. I've been saying this whole time this is what's most efficient for me (the relic hunter); not that it's what helps everyone else. If you agree that it's the most efficient approach, but think I'm lazy or self-centered for doing it, I really don't care. The opinions and "respect" of the people on this board mean very little to me.

So, from a self-centered perspective, it doesn't benefit you to farm essence when you can just walk in. You know it contributes nothing to the group, but you don't care because it doesn't contribute enough for you. Perfectly fair to feel that way, people won't respect you for it but that's another debate, it's better than arguing a false point over 17 pages.

You're wrong on efficiency because PF Essence runs exist. 18 minutes average per run x5 + 15 minutes Cluster grind + 15 minutes setting up groups is much less than 45 minutes average x5. But that's your own choice.

[Goji1639]

So, from a self-centered perspective, it doesn't benefit you to farm essence when you can just walk in. You know it contributes nothing to the group, but you don't care because it doesn't contribute enough for you. Perfectly fair to feel that way, people won't respect you for it but that's another debate, it's better than arguing a false point over 17 pages.

You're wrong on efficiency because PF Essence runs exist. 18 minutes average per run x5 + 15 minutes Cluster grind + 15 minutes setting up groups is much less than 45 minutes average x5. But that's your own choice.

I haven't been arguing a false point; I've been arguing efficiency this whole time. My entire point has been that farming essences for DF is a waste of time, and I'm 100% correct. People calling me lazy, a leech, whatever were never addressing the actual issue; they were just throwing out petty insults to avoid addressing my points.

PF essence runs are a different issue; they require essences so you have to farm. I never said I should be allowed into a PF speed run without farming essences.

Youre the guy going on rants about how the devs are lazy and manipulative because you dont like bozja content and everyone who is enjoying essences and lost actions are lemmings or sheep.

You might wanna go outside and touch some grass, instead of faffing around in content you clearly resent.

It's definitely lazy and manipulative, but I don't care if you enjoy that. Plenty of people love cheap, lazy mobile games and I don't fault them for it. The people who skirt the issue and try to paint the devs as altruists who were promoting human decency are definitely lemmings, though.

The devs just came up with a lazy grind to keep you all farming in circles for negative output, because that's easier than designing a reward structure. If you're enjoying it then god bless, but plenty of people will see it for what it is and avoid it. Doesn't mean they won't still want their relic, though.

What technicals? The "using essence only saves 1 minute" number that you pulled out of your hat? How did you verify and prove this?

I provided the Math earlier in the thread. It was obviously an approximation based on normalized input, but the result is basically that a skirmisher essence saves a slow run 24 seconds. Rounding up to a minute is a very conservative and generous way to account for the inevitable variations in the data that would result from real application.

[technole]

The being permanent is a huge difference though. You're gonna have to grind/buy essences the whole time you're doing relics, one or more per run of anything you run, idk if anyone ever did the math but I certainly don't want to. The time to farm that all (or the time to farm the money to buy it) is way more than grinding valor takes. , unless you're only doing one relic or something.

The castrum fragment buff now is what I call a DR starter pack. Personally they should have added timeworn step and/or the last step to Castrum drops. Would have been a double win.

[Fland]

Essence? Yes, it only affects your output.

Some essences can be combined with specific lost action that can affect your party. Like Elder and Cure IV for the AOE Bravery.
So not all essences affect only the user's output.

My entire point has been that farming essences for DF is a waste of time, and I'm 100% correct.

No you're not.

[Nethereal]

I haven't been arguing a false point; I've been arguing efficiency this whole time. My entire point has been that farming essences for DF is a waste of time, and I'm 100% correct. People calling me lazy, a leech, whatever were never addressing the actual issue; they were just throwing out petty insults to avoid addressing my points.

The irony here is palpable.

You've had this conversation in 3 different threads, been disproven in each of them and in one of them you were even given video evidence.
Combine this with the nerfed requirements from last patch you honestly have to be intentionally being intellectually dishonest or you're an amazing troll.

Either way considering how much time you have here to waste on the forums about the same topic you're wrong about I can safely conclude it's not about the math, the relic, or the farm as to why you don't want to get essences.

I won't deny it though if everyone in NA has your mindset it really is pointless to do casual content in df.

[Vahlnir]

Either way considering how much time you have here to waste on the forums about the same topic you're wrong about I can safely conclude it's not about the math, the relic, or the farm as to why you don't want to get essences.

Correct, it's not about any of those things. They just don't want to be wrong. What they will likely do, however, is argue until everyone else gives up out of frustration and then say "See? SEE?! I WAS RIGHT!"

[Goji1639]

The irony here is palpable.

You've had this conversation in 3 different threads, been disproven in each of them and in one of them you were even given video evidence.
Combine this with the nerfed requirements from last patch you honestly have to be intentionally being intellectually dishonest or you're an amazing troll.

Either way considering how much time you have here to waste on the forums about the same topic you're wrong about I can safely conclude it's not about the math, the relic, or the farm as to why you don't want to get essences.

I won't deny it though if everyone in NA has your mindset it really is pointless to do casual content in df.

Oh gee, look. Another post of someone ignoring every point I've made and just saying I'm wrong without providing any argument, logic, math or even an attempt at a thought. Just bringing up old threads with no context and "videos," that have supposedly proven me wrong, where I wouldn't have even the slightest clue what you're talking about. It's amazing how you people stick around here but go to such great lengths to avoid the actual discussion.

Correct, it's not about any of those things. They just don't want to be wrong. What they will likely do, however, is argue until everyone else gives up out of frustration and then say "See? SEE?! I WAS RIGHT!"

Seriously, what have you done here that could even abstractly be considered proving me wrong? All you people do is avoid addressing any points I've made, and just look to each other for reassurance. I've been doing ALL of the legwork in terms of providing actual sound argument, while you all do your best to avoid contributing anything worthwhile and just cheerlead each other.

It's not that I don't want to be wrong, it's that I'm not wrong until you provide SOMETHING that punches a hole in what I'm saying. The Math and Logic I've provided are what prove me right, and if you want me to be wrong you have to address those things. I know you won't, though, because you're not comfortable doing anything here but fishing for reassurance.

No you're not.

Sums up the level of discourse I'm getting from the people I'm "discussing" this with nicely.

[Vahlnir]

Oh gee, look. Another post of someone ignoring every point I've made and just saying I'm wrong without providing any argument, logic, math or even an attempt at a thought. Just bringing up old threads with no context and "videos," that have supposedly proven me wrong, where I wouldn't have even the slightest clue what you're talking about. It's amazing how you people stick around here but go to such great lengths to avoid the actual discussion.



Seriously, what have you done here that could even abstractly be considered proving me wrong? All you people do is avoid addressing any points I've made, and just look to each other for reassurance. I've been doing ALL of the legwork in terms of providing actual sound argument, while you all do your best to avoid contributing anything worthwhile and just cheerlead each other.

It's not that I don't want to be wrong, it's that I'm not wrong until you provide SOMETHING that punches a hole in what I'm saying. The Math and Logic I've provided are what prove me right, and if you want me to be wrong you have to address those things. I know you won't, though, because you're not comfortable doing anything here but fishing for reassurance.



Sums up the level of discourse I'm getting from the people I'm "discussing" this with nicely.

You have been presented with the facts, and there has been many holes punched through your arguments and you have had your logic completely disintegrated like a Savage tank buster deleting a healer from the game. Multiple times in multiple threads. You just don't want to hear them. Just because you don't want to hear them doesn't mean they don't exist. But, since this is the case with you, we are all wasting our time trying to get you to see that. And it is for that reason I will be bowing out of this thread. Good luck. You're going to need it.

[Goji1639]

You have been presented with the facts. You just don't want to hear them. Just because you don't want to hear them doesn't mean they don't exist.

The only response I received that used numbers and logic was the cumulative gains argument, which I addressed and countered with numbers and logic. Once I countered that you all devolved into what's happening right now... This whole telling me I'm wrong while not actually making anything that resembles a point thing you keep doing.

I don't know if you think these kinds of evasive non-responses are convincing or clever, but they're not. It's like you all have nothing to defend your positions with but for some reason you can't stop talking.