Apartments need Rent

[Almagnus1]

They asked for a source, and it was provided with a post that links DIRECTLY to the source. You're being pretty disingenuous here.

If you were being intellectually honest with the post, you would have posted the entire thing, rather than cutting out key parts that provided historical and textual context for the parts you quoted.

Not all of them are being disingenuous. Most weren't around back when it was an issue to know what it was like. They only know what things are like now.\

That's why someone chopping up a four year old post (especially the first post in a thread) is a problem (original post and thread title follows).

Looking back at it years later, while I have been advocating for instanced housing (which is what one of the things mentioned in that post definitely is) two of the other things were aimed solely at addressing the shell FC housing situation and also what we now call grandfathered in personal housing, which is a position I have held since that time and honestly shouldn't be surprising to anyone here.

The problem, though, comes with the timer as that's not a good solution to the problem, and all it really has done is exchange one source of pain and misery for another. However, until there is a mechanism in place to either allow someone to throw gil at the problem (like an auction where minimum bid is 5% of the current bid and it runs for 4 hours minimum will will continue past the duration until 5 minutes has elapsed since the last bid) or we let RNG decide the house own (through a raffle). At this point, I honestly don't care which way it goes as both have their drawbacks. I don't know if either is truly a better solution to replace the timer, but I don't see a way out of this aside from taking some risks and just picking on and going with it. All of this can be summed up as "We have a werewolf to kill, but we don't have silver bullets, we only have lead bullets. This is not going to be pretty"

Original post with title:

Thread title:
New Wards Alone Aren't Going to Solve the Housing Issue

Post date:
10-12-2017 05:11 PM CST

While I appreciate new wards for all the housing districts coming in 4.2, and this is very much a step in the right direction, this is only going to be a short term solution at best as the unaddressed issue with housing (being land barons) is going to cause the exact same issue we saw with Shirogane to appear AGAIN.

SE needs to take action to kill FFXIVs house flipping market, or they will never be able to add enough wards because all the land barons will do is further increase their holdings while the rest of us get screwed.

That's why they need to restrict personal houses to one per server.

That's why appartments need access to yard space (so we have true instanced housing).

That's why there needs to be a random, invisibile, timer that lasts between 1 to 24 hours when house is released so the risk involved with getting your house from a house flipper is so great, that many will not want to do just that.

That's also why the alt shell FCs intended solely to take up housing slots need to be dealt with.

We need ALL of these things with the additional wards in order to fix this issue, as any of these fixes by themselves isn't going to resolve the issue.

[Almagnus1]

So you admit the idea was a bad one then?

So you admit that SE didn't use my idea and that it was coincidence that they implemented something similar then?

[Nepentha]

So you admit that SE didn't use my idea and that it was coincidence that they implemented something similar then?

I'll ask again: Do you admit that your idea, which was implemented to the letter of what you asked for, was a bad one?

[Jojoya]

Oh I agree that things were pretty bad back then, and SE definitely needed to do something. This just wasn't it.

Then why weren't players making other suggestions back then if the timer wasn't the answer?

There wasn't a lot of pushback to Almangus's original suggestion. On the surface it was a sound idea and actually did work for all of 4.2 and 4.3, along with most of 4.4. The only world during that period that had perpetual complaints about trying to get a house was Balmung and that's because Balmung was severely congested at that time.

It stopped working as efficiently when the player base exploded in size in the first half of 2019 but there was no corresponding increase in the number of plots on each world.

If we had gotten an increase to the number of plots sufficient for the new size of the player base, the timer would have continued to work well. There would still be some flipping on the side for those trying to get medium and large houses (that will always be a problem as long as the quantities are very limited) but no one would have had to go through a flipper or camp a placard to get their first house.

We're right back to where these discussions always end up - supply. If the supply was sufficient, the timer wouldn't be a problem.

What we have now is a bot developer making a killing selling a bot he developed to players who are desperate but don't want to sit for hours at a placard clicking. .

No one has to buy a bot program to auto-click a placard. All it takes is a simple macro on a programmable keyboard. Bot developers aren't making a killing off housing in the game (though they're definitely doing well on other grindy aspects).

1. 45 day relocation timer. Which starts the second you relocate the house somewhere. Personal and FC houses both are subject to this. It may not stop the relocator sellers, but it definitely hampers them having to wait 45 days to be able to relocate to another plot. In the meanwhile, mediums and larges that demo are open to other people. It also makes people stop and think before they relocate somewhere. Is that plot *really* the one you want in your heart of hearts? No? Then probably best to stay where you are for now.

2. FC master cannot be handed down to anyone who hasn't been in the FC for at least 30 days. This puts the kabosh on people botting their way to a small plot with the intent to flip it right away to someone willing to purchase the FC with house attached. From what I've seen, these sellers count on a quick sale. Having to have the buyer in the FC for 30 days (and being unable to hand off their FC to an alt to sit on right away) may not kill the industry but it'll make it much harder to the point some will find the effort no longer worth the reward.

3. Lower the damn placard timer. 24 hours is ridiculous. I'd go with 6 to 8 hours at the most, 6 being preferable.

45 days seems excessive to me though definitely we need something more than the 5 minutes it currently is. Personally I'd set the relocation cooldown at 7 days. Long enough that someone isn't going to random repeat relocating on a whim but not so long they're likely to miss out on a chance at their dream plot.

Definitely FC abuses need to be addressed but the 30 day restriction could end up a problem for newly formed legitimate FCs if something unexpected happens to the original leader. With the rather lax permissions structure currently within the game, a lot of FCs are being extra cautious with the permissions. The FC situation is one that really needs some serious thinking for an overhaul.

Definitely agree that the timer should be much shorter. Four to 6 hours is more than enough for it to accomplish what it's intended to do.

[Thrivaios]

No one has to buy a bot program to auto-click a placard. All it takes is a simple macro on a programmable keyboard. Bot developers aren't making a killing off housing in the game (though they're definitely doing well on other grindy aspects).

They are, though. Any cursory glance over RMT websites can show that this behavior regarding housing has skyrocketed in the last year, especially.

[Nepentha]

Then why weren't players making other suggestions back then if the timer wasn't the answer?

There wasn't a lot of pushback to Almangus's original suggestion. On the surface it was a sound idea and actually did work for all of 4.2 and 4.3, along with most of 4.4. The only world during that period that had perpetual complaints about trying to get a house was Balmung and that's because Balmung was severely congested at that time.

It stopped working as efficiently when the player base exploded in size in the first half of 2019 but there was no corresponding increase in the number of plots on each world.

If we had gotten an increase to the number of plots sufficient for the new size of the player base, the timer would have continued to work well. There would still be some flipping on the side for those trying to get medium and large houses (that will always be a problem as long as the quantities are very limited) but no one would have had to go through a flipper or camp a placard to get their first house.

We're right back to where these discussions always end up - supply. If the supply was sufficient, the timer wouldn't be a problem.

'On the surface' maybe, it was a kneejerk response from a playerbase tired of the reselling and I am sure it looked like a housing savior idea. In reality mmm no, it completely backfired. It was overkill being a 24 hour timer. And no one thought through the ways the resellers and flippers could get around this bar. ​But agreed, SE could easily put this all to rest just by eliminating the supply problem from the equation.

As for why didn't people make their own suggestions, perhaps they weren't even aware of the OF at the time? Or they've started playing since then? I mean, I didn't even know about them till recently myself.
​

No one has to buy a bot program to auto-click a placard. All it takes is a simple macro on a programmable keyboard. Bot developers aren't making a killing off housing in the game (though they're definitely doing well on other grindy aspects).

Have you tried one of those simple macros? I have, others have. We've even shot videos of their use and traded them between ourselves because curiosity. They're not very good lol. Also yes, there are definitely people using this bot and the bot maker is selling it for quite a bit of money to pay for the keys to be able to keep using it. And the use of it is on the uptick as people crowd around placards and get tired of losing out to other people.

[MilkieTea]

If you were being intellectually honest with the post, you would have posted the entire thing, rather than cutting out key parts that provided historical and textual context for the parts you quoted.

They asked for proof, I gave proof. I wasn’t trying to take you out of context for some quick *gotcha*, I was providing the KEY PART that they wanted, with a quick way for them to go straight to the rest of the post.

But obviously that’s wayyyy too much to understand, everyone’s gotta have a motive huh?

[Almagnus1]

I'll ask again: Do you admit that your idea, which was implemented to the letter of what you asked for, was a bad one?

I'll Ask again:
Do you admit that my idea, which was never implemented by SE, only appeared out of coincidence?

You will not get a serious answer until you cease with your delusion that I have somehow influenced SE until you can prove that I have influenced SE.

[Almagnus1]

They asked for proof, I gave proof. I wasn’t trying to take you out of context for some quick *gotcha*, I was providing the KEY PART that they wanted, with a quick way for them to go straight to the rest of the post.

But obviously that’s wayyyy too much to understand, everyone’s gotta have a motive huh?

I would agree with you had you posted the unabridged post and the post date. You did neither, and I am free to assume why you may have... and I think the assumption is actually rather close to the truth based off of how you are reacting.

[Nepentha]

I'll Ask again:
Do you admit that my idea, which was never implemented by SE, only appeared out of coincidence?

You will not get a serious answer until you cease with your delusion that I have somehow influenced SE until you can prove that I have influenced SE.

The reason I ask is, clearly you're upset with the idea that you may have influenced SE to handle things this way. Which I assume you wouldn't be if you were proud of your idea being implemented. So which is it? It's a great idea and coincidence or not you're glad they did it? Or it was a bad idea and you want to distance yourself from it by claiming it was just coincidence and you had nothing to do with it really?