Mentor Roulette should have longer lockout time

[Baxcel]

If they fake DC, you have no way of proving they did so intentionally beyond your assumption. Which GMs will not accept. And if they DC, you lose LB3, making the attempt more difficult for any new players. All to prove some silly point to a player who likely couldn't give a damn. They went off and played something else, or logged into a second character should they have one.

You also ignored the example I provided. If someone sandbags by simply using only a small portion of their kit and getting hit by every other AoE, you have no recourse to report then. GMs will always err on the side of reasonable doubt. A mentor playing poorly isn't reportable. If it were, well... there's a whole lot of DR players who'd be banned by now.

Finally, they don't need to convince you. Just four players out of seven. While you may be petty enough to try and force them to stay, others may not be since they want to either clear or leave themselves and try again.

All in all, you're creating a far worse environment for new players by likely wasting several minutes arguing or dealing with someone who doesn't want to be there.

As far as I'm aware you cant vote dismiss yourself so the mentors always mess up by demanding to be kicked from the instance.. the last time it happened was un Ifrit Ex with a bunch of spouts an FC member of mine and myself.. they refused to help said kick them we said no they got this from mentor roulette so it was what they agreed to do by using the roulette they said it wasn't going to clear kick me or they'd afk.. we told them no again and then cleared with an afk summoner sitting dead at the spawn..

Also just because the fake a DC dosnt mean anything.. they have to log back in and when they do they'll either have been in the instance the whole time anyways or they'll have missed a clear.. either way they were still in the duty they were assigned to.

These mentors who sandbag always... ALWAYS say something about not wanting to be there or that the spouts can't do this content before demanding to be kicked.. even if they do a lame set of 123 combo that's still more then they do if they sit around an do nothing..

So no its not creating a worse environment for the spouts.. its teaching them to hold players accountable for the duty they get.. just like those guys who instantly bail from Castrium in MSQ roulette.. report and move on with you clear attempt

[Vahlnir]

Then you have no right ever being a mentor

Mentors aren't defined by their willingness (or unwillingness) to guide new players through the hardest of Extreme trials through a roulette. They are more likely to join a party through the PF to help (I am one of these mentors every now and again) than stick around in the DF just because some randoms went in half-cocked. Why waste our time when our help and time can be better utilized elsewhere?

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

and then cleared with an afk summoner sitting dead at the spawn..

Because they were a SMN. echo can easily cover lack of damage. Try that in Ramuh EX with one tank afk and see how far you get. I'll wait.

Also just because the fake a DC dosnt mean anything.. they have to log back in and when they do they'll either have been in the instance the whole time anyways or they'll have missed a clear.. either way they were still in the duty they were assigned to.

They really don't though. EX trial instance timer is 1hr. I could easily fake DC, then go log onto a different character for an hour if I really want to. Or go do housework, go run groceries, or go boot up a game or two of League to easily run that timer out then log in 61 minutes later. And if you somehow clear without that person, good for you. Personally, I'd rather just fake DC/leave than risk intense frustration at lack of people listening, constant wipes, or having an hour wasted than gamble on the chance that this is a miracle group. Because when I actually queue'd for mentor roulette back in HW days, I went 0-20 on EX trials I got trying to help people.

Disclaimer, I don't queue mentor roulette anymore. Just playing devil's advocate.

even if they do a lame set of 123 combo that's still more then they do if they sit around an do nothing..

I can think of tons of ways in various EX trials where a mentor can sandbag a fight and having their presence would literally be worse than if they weren't there at all:

Garuda: Kill spiny early
Titan: kill gaols early and get someone landslided
Ifrit: bait eruptions badly.
Leviathan: trip the generator early
Ramuh: eat extra orbs to prevent tanks/rolling thunder targets from refreshing.
Shiva: bait arrow knockback on group

And all of them could easily be replied with "sorry, my bad" and the GMs could do literally nothing, since there'd be no evidence of malice. Incompetence is not bannable. Also, them 'accidentally' getting killed by every other AOE is an active detriment, since your healers will likely spend mana to try and raise them, only for them to 'accidentally' die again. Which could put the healers in a bad situation where they don't have enough mana when they actually need it.

So no its not creating a worse environment for the spouts.. its teaching them to hold players accountable for the duty they get.. just like those guys who instantly bail from Castrium in MSQ roulette.. report and move on with you clear attempt

I bet 99% of these sprouts you're hoping to 'teach' with this lesson will forget said run & lesson in a few days time.

Also as ForteNightShade mentioned, if someone wants to get kicked, they don't need to convince you. chances are after a wipe or two, several people in the party will be itching at the opportunity to kick the guy to get a free 'bail with no penalty' card.

[xxmiamorecadenza]

Then you have no right ever being a mentor

I mean I was. And I have the Astrope mount from 2000 Mentor Roulettes to prove it. So every time I use it I'll think of you and that quote of yours. :]

[Baxcel]

Because they were a SMN. echo can easily cover lack of damage. Try that in Ramuh EX with one tank afk and see how far you get. I'll wait.



They really don't though. EX trial instance timer is 1hr. I could easily fake DC, then go log onto a different character for an hour if I really want to. Or go do housework, go run groceries, or go boot up a game or two of League to easily run that timer out then log in 61 minutes later. And if you somehow clear without that person, good for you. Personally, I'd rather just fake DC/leave than risk intense frustration at lack of people listening, constant wipes, or having an hour wasted than gamble on the chance that this is a miracle group. Because when I actually queue'd for mentor roulette back in HW days, I went 0-20 on EX trials I got trying to help people.

Disclaimer, I don't queue mentor roulette anymore. Just playing devil's advocate.



I can think of tons of ways in various EX trials where a mentor can sandbag a fight and having their presence would literally be worse than if they weren't there at all:

Garuda: Kill spiny early
Titan: kill gaols early and get someone landslided
Ifrit: bait eruptions badly.
Leviathan: trip the generator early
Ramuh: eat extra orbs to prevent tanks/rolling thunder targets from refreshing.
Shiva: bait arrow knockback on group

And all of them could easily be replied with "sorry, my bad" and the GMs could do literally nothing, since there'd be no evidence of malice. Incompetence is not bannable. Also, them 'accidentally' getting killed by every other AOE is an active detriment, since your healers will likely spend mana to try and raise them, only for them to 'accidentally' die again. Which could put the healers in a bad situation where they don't have enough mana when they actually need it.



I bet 99% of these sprouts you're hoping to 'teach' with this lesson will forget said run & lesson in a few days time.

Also as ForteNightShade mentioned, if someone wants to get kicked, they don't need to convince you. chances are after a wipe or two, several people in the party will be itching at the opportunity to kick the guy to get a free 'bail with no penalty' card.

It's not Ramuh but I did do Titan Ex without a co-tank thanks to a mentor that bailed on spouts.. that one has tank swap busters too..

But no I'm just advocating for people to commit to what they sign up for with the roulettes.. you know that Exs are in mentor if you don't wanna do an Ex don't do mentor roulette.

Also that's the point.. they can do something else for the instance hour.. but they ain't doing it on the chr that's in the Ex with me and the spouts.. so they can eat that 30min timer or lose access to their current chr for a full lockout or however long it takes us to clear.. knowing that if they had helped it would be faster

[Vahlnir]

you know that Exs are in mentor if you don't wanna do an Ex don't do mentor roulette.

Yep. That's why I didn't bother trying to unlock it again. I can help in other ways, and the roulette is hardly necessary. I guess my unwillingness to do so means I shouldn't be a mentor though...

[Ariel_Valmont]

I usually stick around for a few pulls and gauge the groups ability to listen/follow instructions, and general attitude towards being taught.

[Krotoan]

Yep. That's why I didn't bother trying to unlock it again. I can help in other ways, and the roulette is hardly necessary. I guess my unwillingness to do so means I shouldn't be a mentor though...

I don't think that's the point that the.. uh.. non passionate people in the thread are pushing.
If you like helping in novice chat, joining random PF learning partys to assist and generally helping out thats very much the Mentor system. However if you don't want to do all the things in the mentor roulette.. Don't queue.

I usually stick around for a few pulls and gauge the groups ability to listen/follow instructions, and general attitude towards being taught.

Which is fair. But there are a lot of people here who simply see the instance is something that COULD be bad and based on past bad experiences just duck out.

[Vahlnir]

If you like helping in novice chat, joining random PF learning partys to assist and generally helping out thats very much the Mentor system. However if you don't want to do all the things in the mentor roulette.. Don't queue.

Right, I get that. That is the case with most of them I'm sure, but I was mostly referring to a specific poster with an attitude problem. But yeah, I do exactly that...I don't queue. Partly because I didn't bother to unlock it a second time, but also because I just don't want it to begin with because the first time around wasn't exactly sunshines and rainbows. Despite all of that I try my best to help out when I can, provided I'm willing and able to at the time.

[Caurcas]

It's also worth mentioning that doing old EX trials synched is worthless. You gain nothing, and waste your time (and the time of others) that could be using for modern content, or content that matters.