Apartments need Rent

[Almagnus1]

Even "poor" players would get 10k by just doing roulettes or selling crap on mb.
it wouldn't make a difference at all, now if we say do 100k a week then maybe but why create a solution to a problem that doesnt even exist in the first place?
This is why I think was his first? (poorly) attempt to make a troll thread since that seems to be the new cool thing to do on this forum recent months.

Point here is to add in a gil sink to the game where one isn't already existing. With as low as it is on apartments, it sets precedent to do the same for houses, where it can be much higher (especially on the FC houses). If the FC house rent is a lot higher than the house rent (and both higher than the apartment rent) it makes owning and operating a shell FC house that much harder to do because you've got to deal with the rent. Right now, with such a trivial amount on apartments, it basically serves to introduce the gil sink, make apartments a lot easier to get into (lower GC rank and 100k vs 500k initial cost) so (in essence) it's opening them up.

And just because you disagree with the idea doesn't make it a troll thread =)

[MilkieTea]

Point here is to add in a gil sink to the game where one isn't already existing. With as low as it is on apartments, it sets precedent to do the same for houses, where it can be much higher (especially on the FC houses). If the FC house rent is a lot higher than the house rent (and both higher than the apartment rent) it makes owning and operating a shell FC house that much harder to do because you've got to deal with the rent. Right now, with such a trivial amount on apartments, it basically serves to introduce the gil sink, make apartments a lot easier to get into (lower GC rank and 100k vs 500k initial cost) so (in essence) it's opening them up.

And just because you disagree with the idea doesn't make it a troll thread =)

You're missing the key factor though - gil sinks can't be too cheap. So it makes ZERO sense to tie it into something already cheap and entrylevel. They need to target the hoarders, and they need to be VOLUNTARY - and tied to something they'll want. Custom mounts (not recolors), minions, barding, glamours, and hair. Otherwise they're not going to work. Apartments are used so little as it is (because they're so small and most people see them as useless (which- they're not? Unless you're crossbreeding.)). Tying it to a gil sink is just going to turn people away even more. With the 10k per week gilsink, apartments would end up being 660k in the first year - a full 160k above where they are right now. Wow... such a gil sink. That's definitely more than a drop in a bucket. /s

You keep coming at this thinking that gil sinks targeting the poorer players are going to work. It's not.

[Almagnus1]

You're missing the key factor though - gil sinks can't be too cheap.

And you're missing another point here: You don't use just ONE gil sink, you use many. This is one of many as FFXIV simply does not have enough gil sinks in the game as it is.

So it makes ZERO sense to tie it into something already cheap and entrylevel. They need to target the hoarders, and they need to be VOLUNTARY - and tied to something they'll want.

Not all gil sinks are voluntary... and if you're targeting a hoarder they are not going to voluntarily part with their gil cause they're a... wait for it... hoarder.

Custom mounts (not recolors), minions, barding, glamours, and hair.

Why not all of that with the involuntary gil sinks?

You keep coming at this thinking that gil sinks targeting the poorer players are going to work. It's not.

And how much math has been shown IN THIS THREAD that 10k gil/week IS NOT DIFFICULT TO GET. You say "You keep targeting the poorer players" when it's shown that someone at endgame with a bit of motivation is going to easily earn that much and more gil, so the weekly cost of 10k gil is basically trivial.

[MilkieTea]

And you're missing another point here: You don't use just ONE gil sink, you use many. This is one of many as FFXIV simply does not have enough gil sinks in the game as it is.

Not all gil sinks are voluntary... and if you're targeting a hoarder they are not going to voluntarily part with their gil cause they're a... wait for it... hoarder.

Why not all of that with the involuntary gil sinks?

And how much math has been shown IN THIS THREAD that 10k gil/week IS NOT DIFFICULT TO GET. You say "You keep targeting the poorer players" when it's shown that someone at endgame with a bit of motivation is going to easily earn that much and more gil, so the weekly cost of 10k gil is basically trivial.

Because 10k a week does NOTHING. 25m+ or bust - otherwise it's a drop in the bucket and it WON'T WORK.

Also, please pay more attention to what I'm saying.

"Thinking that gilsinks targeting poorer players will work" =/= "You keep targeting poorer players". 10k gil a week is so easy to get that it WILL NOT BE A GIL SINK. It would be the same effectiveness as teleporting everywhere on gil alone would be. You keep contradicting yourself.

Is a rent gilsink going to work? Or is the money so easy to get that it's trivial to poorer players? It CANNOT BE BOTH. That's why this idea won't work. Not even uping it to 100k per week would work because a poorer player earns that in a day doing simple roulettes at endgame. So which is it?

[Keramory]

I'm confused on why there's an argument about gil sinks to begin with.

The topic was how to make apartments more appealing to players. Telling them the appeal is, "Because you gotta lose gil somehow" probably wont register well with most people.

[MilkieTea]

I'm confused on why there's an argument about gil sinks to begin with.

The topic was how to make apartments more appealing to players. Telling them the appeal is, "Because you gotta lose gil somehow" probably wont register well with most people.

I only piped in because somewhere along the line, Almagnus started talking about gil sinks. Either way, this is unappealing and lacks finesse.

[Besame]

"Hoarders unite!, don't let them take away the right to be rich!" hehe. No Forced Gill Sinks (shoos her troll back under the bridge...)

[Almagnus1]

I only piped in because somewhere along the line, Almagnus started talking about gil sinks. Either way, this is unappealing and lacks finesse.

And if all the houses (and apartments) had rent on them... it would make it significantly more difficult for someone to hoard houses and making it difficult for people in addition to bleeding some gil from the economy. The goal here isn't to drain Lake Powell by blowing up the dam... but to provide another way to redirect some water from the Colorado so that Lake Powell doesn't over flow... akin to having a series of luxury hotels in the area that are consuming the water from the lake and pumping the water out to a nearby city. The problem with MMO economies, however, is that they do not work like the real world one because they are all about currency creation and destruction, with the economy retaining some of the currency and that cycling amongst the playerbase.

But back to rent, several other MMOs do this, and going by IRL, while you don't have rent on most houses (ignoring the housing payment until the load is paid off) you do have maintenance costs... especially when your AC decides to commit sudoku in the middle of a heat wave! =D **cries in sweat**

[MilkieTea]

And if all the houses (and apartments) had rent on them... it would make it significantly more difficult for someone to hoard houses and making it difficult for people in addition to bleeding some gil from the economy. The goal here isn't to drain Lake Powell by blowing up the dam... but to provide another way to redirect some water from the Colorado so that Lake Powell doesn't over flow... akin to having a series of luxury hotels in the area that are consuming the water from the lake and pumping the water out to a nearby city. The problem with MMO economies, however, is that they do not work like the real world one because they are all about currency creation and destruction, with the economy retaining some of the currency and that cycling amongst the playerbase.

But back to rent, several other MMOs do this, and going by IRL, while you don't have rent on most houses (ignoring the housing payment until the load is paid off) you do have maintenance costs... especially when your AC decides to commit sudoku in the middle of a heat wave! =D **cries in sweat**

Using your analogy - this idea would be akin to diverting nothing but a tiny, tiny, tiny creek (like the kinds you step over with half a step). It's not nearly enough because precipitation would just add that back in anyways. Will lake powell overflow? With the tiny amount being diverted, any big rain shower would send it overflowing.

If you want a weekly gil sink - MAKE luxury hotel. Apartments are not luxury hotels. Make something that COUNTS - because 10k a week, 20k, 30k, 100k, won't do anything. And once you start getting into the prices that WOULD make even a small amount of difference, you'd have to justify it - and apartments don't justify that cost.

[Almagnus1]

Using your analogy - this idea would be akin to diverting nothing but a tiny, tiny, tiny creek (like the kinds you step over with half a step). It's not nearly enough because precipitation would just add that back in anyways. Will lake powell overflow? With the tiny amount being diverted, any big rain shower would send it overflowing.

I think it'd do more than you think it would. If you take a set of 90 apartments, that's going to pump out 900k gil/week per ward. With 24 wards across four housing areas (and each ward having two complexes), we're looking at 172,800,000 gil leaving the economy PER WEEK (assuming full apartment occupancy). Yes, the 10k gil/week per player is completely trivial, but when you start looking at the total economic impact, it's actually a lot more than you think it is.

Now if we do the same for houses, and go with X k upkeep per house (and arguably there should be a multiplier for the FC houses) then we are looking at least 5,760 * x gil per week leaving the economy. Or to put it this way, if the housing rent was between 10k to 100k , that would result between 57,600,000 gil/week and 576,000,000 gil/week leaving economy. All you'd need to do to cross the billion gil per week deleted is charge 173,612 gil/week rent on the houses.

I totally get that on a per person level the number is completely trivial, but that's the point of a good gil sink - it's something the average player wouldn't think twice about paying but when it's scaled up across everyone in a system, it actually deletes out quite a bit of gil. In other words, this is how Patreon can make an artist a millionaire in a month.