Mentor Roulette should have longer lockout time

[Baxcel]

All this does is prompt people to fake a DC or demand they be kicked and refuse to participate. Keep in mind, you can't report them if they're pressing 123 and conveniently not dodging mechanics. Basically, so long as they don't make it obvious, you can do absolutely nothing except kick them.

Simply put, forcing someone to stay who clearly doesn't want to be there will likely make your experience worse.

That's when you don't kick them and force them along with the fight so that they afk and get reported after we finish or they leave themselves and take the penalty..

I will never kick a mentor out again.. if they wanna sandbag they can accept their report or leave and take the penalty.. if they demand to be kicked that's just more fuel for the report..

The echo will gladly make up for the loss in dps from them even at 10% and always has so far.

[ForteNightshade]

That's when you don't kick them and force them along with the fight so that they afk and get reported after we finish or they leave themselves and take the penalty..

I will never kick a mentor out again.. if they wanna sandbag they can accept their report or leave and take the penalty.. if they demand to be kicked that's just more fuel for the report..

The echo will gladly make up for the loss in dps from them even at 10% and always has so far.

If they fake DC, you have no way of proving they did so intentionally beyond your assumption. Which GMs will not accept. And if they DC, you lose LB3, making the attempt more difficult for any new players. All to prove some silly point to a player who likely couldn't give a damn. They went off and played something else, or logged into a second character should they have one.

You also ignored the example I provided. If someone sandbags by simply using only a small portion of their kit and getting hit by every other AoE, you have no recourse to report then. GMs will always err on the side of reasonable doubt. A mentor playing poorly isn't reportable. If it were, well... there's a whole lot of DR players who'd be banned by now.

Finally, they don't need to convince you. Just four players out of seven. While you may be petty enough to try and force them to stay, others may not be since they want to either clear or leave themselves and try again.

All in all, you're creating a far worse environment for new players by likely wasting several minutes arguing or dealing with someone who doesn't want to be there.

[Baxcel]

If they fake DC, you have no way of proving they did so intentionally beyond your assumption. Which GMs will not accept. And if they DC, you lose LB3, making the attempt more difficult for any new players. All to prove some silly point to a player who likely couldn't give a damn. They went off and played something else, or logged into a second character should they have one.

You also ignored the example I provided. If someone sandbags by simply using only a small portion of their kit and getting hit by every other AoE, you have no recourse to report then. GMs will always err on the side of reasonable doubt. A mentor playing poorly isn't reportable. If it were, well... there's a whole lot of DR players who'd be banned by now.

Finally, they don't need to convince you. Just four players out of seven. While you may be petty enough to try and force them to stay, others may not be since they want to either clear or leave themselves and try again.

All in all, you're creating a far worse environment for new players by likely wasting several minutes arguing or dealing with someone who doesn't want to be there.

As far as I'm aware you cant vote dismiss yourself so the mentors always mess up by demanding to be kicked from the instance.. the last time it happened was un Ifrit Ex with a bunch of spouts an FC member of mine and myself.. they refused to help said kick them we said no they got this from mentor roulette so it was what they agreed to do by using the roulette they said it wasn't going to clear kick me or they'd afk.. we told them no again and then cleared with an afk summoner sitting dead at the spawn..

Also just because the fake a DC dosnt mean anything.. they have to log back in and when they do they'll either have been in the instance the whole time anyways or they'll have missed a clear.. either way they were still in the duty they were assigned to.

These mentors who sandbag always... ALWAYS say something about not wanting to be there or that the spouts can't do this content before demanding to be kicked.. even if they do a lame set of 123 combo that's still more then they do if they sit around an do nothing..

So no its not creating a worse environment for the spouts.. its teaching them to hold players accountable for the duty they get.. just like those guys who instantly bail from Castrium in MSQ roulette.. report and move on with you clear attempt

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

and then cleared with an afk summoner sitting dead at the spawn..

Because they were a SMN. echo can easily cover lack of damage. Try that in Ramuh EX with one tank afk and see how far you get. I'll wait.

Also just because the fake a DC dosnt mean anything.. they have to log back in and when they do they'll either have been in the instance the whole time anyways or they'll have missed a clear.. either way they were still in the duty they were assigned to.

They really don't though. EX trial instance timer is 1hr. I could easily fake DC, then go log onto a different character for an hour if I really want to. Or go do housework, go run groceries, or go boot up a game or two of League to easily run that timer out then log in 61 minutes later. And if you somehow clear without that person, good for you. Personally, I'd rather just fake DC/leave than risk intense frustration at lack of people listening, constant wipes, or having an hour wasted than gamble on the chance that this is a miracle group. Because when I actually queue'd for mentor roulette back in HW days, I went 0-20 on EX trials I got trying to help people.

Disclaimer, I don't queue mentor roulette anymore. Just playing devil's advocate.

even if they do a lame set of 123 combo that's still more then they do if they sit around an do nothing..

I can think of tons of ways in various EX trials where a mentor can sandbag a fight and having their presence would literally be worse than if they weren't there at all:

Garuda: Kill spiny early
Titan: kill gaols early and get someone landslided
Ifrit: bait eruptions badly.
Leviathan: trip the generator early
Ramuh: eat extra orbs to prevent tanks/rolling thunder targets from refreshing.
Shiva: bait arrow knockback on group

And all of them could easily be replied with "sorry, my bad" and the GMs could do literally nothing, since there'd be no evidence of malice. Incompetence is not bannable. Also, them 'accidentally' getting killed by every other AOE is an active detriment, since your healers will likely spend mana to try and raise them, only for them to 'accidentally' die again. Which could put the healers in a bad situation where they don't have enough mana when they actually need it.

So no its not creating a worse environment for the spouts.. its teaching them to hold players accountable for the duty they get.. just like those guys who instantly bail from Castrium in MSQ roulette.. report and move on with you clear attempt

I bet 99% of these sprouts you're hoping to 'teach' with this lesson will forget said run & lesson in a few days time.

Also as ForteNightShade mentioned, if someone wants to get kicked, they don't need to convince you. chances are after a wipe or two, several people in the party will be itching at the opportunity to kick the guy to get a free 'bail with no penalty' card.

[Baxcel]

Because they were a SMN. echo can easily cover lack of damage. Try that in Ramuh EX with one tank afk and see how far you get. I'll wait.



They really don't though. EX trial instance timer is 1hr. I could easily fake DC, then go log onto a different character for an hour if I really want to. Or go do housework, go run groceries, or go boot up a game or two of League to easily run that timer out then log in 61 minutes later. And if you somehow clear without that person, good for you. Personally, I'd rather just fake DC/leave than risk intense frustration at lack of people listening, constant wipes, or having an hour wasted than gamble on the chance that this is a miracle group. Because when I actually queue'd for mentor roulette back in HW days, I went 0-20 on EX trials I got trying to help people.

Disclaimer, I don't queue mentor roulette anymore. Just playing devil's advocate.



I can think of tons of ways in various EX trials where a mentor can sandbag a fight and having their presence would literally be worse than if they weren't there at all:

Garuda: Kill spiny early
Titan: kill gaols early and get someone landslided
Ifrit: bait eruptions badly.
Leviathan: trip the generator early
Ramuh: eat extra orbs to prevent tanks/rolling thunder targets from refreshing.
Shiva: bait arrow knockback on group

And all of them could easily be replied with "sorry, my bad" and the GMs could do literally nothing, since there'd be no evidence of malice. Incompetence is not bannable. Also, them 'accidentally' getting killed by every other AOE is an active detriment, since your healers will likely spend mana to try and raise them, only for them to 'accidentally' die again. Which could put the healers in a bad situation where they don't have enough mana when they actually need it.



I bet 99% of these sprouts you're hoping to 'teach' with this lesson will forget said run & lesson in a few days time.

Also as ForteNightShade mentioned, if someone wants to get kicked, they don't need to convince you. chances are after a wipe or two, several people in the party will be itching at the opportunity to kick the guy to get a free 'bail with no penalty' card.

It's not Ramuh but I did do Titan Ex without a co-tank thanks to a mentor that bailed on spouts.. that one has tank swap busters too..

But no I'm just advocating for people to commit to what they sign up for with the roulettes.. you know that Exs are in mentor if you don't wanna do an Ex don't do mentor roulette.

Also that's the point.. they can do something else for the instance hour.. but they ain't doing it on the chr that's in the Ex with me and the spouts.. so they can eat that 30min timer or lose access to their current chr for a full lockout or however long it takes us to clear.. knowing that if they had helped it would be faster

[Vahlnir]

you know that Exs are in mentor if you don't wanna do an Ex don't do mentor roulette.

Yep. That's why I didn't bother trying to unlock it again. I can help in other ways, and the roulette is hardly necessary. I guess my unwillingness to do so means I shouldn't be a mentor though...

[Krotoan]

Yep. That's why I didn't bother trying to unlock it again. I can help in other ways, and the roulette is hardly necessary. I guess my unwillingness to do so means I shouldn't be a mentor though...

I don't think that's the point that the.. uh.. non passionate people in the thread are pushing.
If you like helping in novice chat, joining random PF learning partys to assist and generally helping out thats very much the Mentor system. However if you don't want to do all the things in the mentor roulette.. Don't queue.

I usually stick around for a few pulls and gauge the groups ability to listen/follow instructions, and general attitude towards being taught.

Which is fair. But there are a lot of people here who simply see the instance is something that COULD be bad and based on past bad experiences just duck out.

[ForteNightshade]

It's not Ramuh but I did do Titan Ex without a co-tank thanks to a mentor that bailed on spouts.. that one has tank swap busters too..

But no I'm just advocating for people to commit to what they sign up for with the roulettes.. you know that Exs are in mentor if you don't wanna do an Ex don't do mentor roulette.

Also that's the point.. they can do something else for the instance hour.. but they ain't doing it on the chr that's in the Ex with me and the spouts.. so they can eat that 30min timer or lose access to their current chr for a full lockout or however long it takes us to clear.. knowing that if they had helped it would be faster

What prompted this whole debate is you wanting to extend that penalty to upwards of 90 minutes all to "hold them accountable" when they literally couldn't care less. You're likely making it harder for those sprouts out of sheer pettiness. Going along with what Daeriion_Aeradiir said, say it's a healer who is sandbagging by playing poorly or they were who faked a DC. Now that sprout healer trying to learn Ifrit EX has to do several times the work when they probably aren't too well accustomed to the job they're playing. If they're cool with it, hey, why not give it a short. But if you (and others) are telling them "no, don't kick that person!" simply to "punish" them by holding their character hostile. You're kind of failing at your objective if they're off playing a different game, doing some housework or whatever else and that aforementioned sprout healer is struggling to keep a equally new party alive.

It all boils down to what I said before. Trying to force someone to do something rarely works.