Which healing job are they gonna gut for Sage?

[Absurdity]

Personally, I hope they make it so healers need to heal more or they get buffs that they need to keep up. I too am always casting, but if I wanted to dps, I would have played a dps class. Only reason why I am dpsing as a healer, is because I would be bored.

I think a lot of healer mains hope for this, but it is unfortunately very unlikely to ever happen because it would raise the skill floor for all content.

And raising the skill floor would cause absolute outrage among all the cure bots who already struggle with keeping the party alive. Despite how easy healing at max level currently may be, there are still people who struggle with it.
Could be people who just haven't learned their job well enough yet, but are improving steadily and will eventually have no issues, but it could also be people who simply refuse to learn anything and want to put in the absolute minimum amount of effort required to complete the content.

By asking for more to heal you're essentially asking for Yoshi and his team to risk making a bunch of Netflix healers very angry, because they're suddenly unable to complete the basic content required for the MSQ.
I think it is a necessary evil that will eventually have to happen but I'm also obviously biased when it comes to designing content for the lowest common denominator.

[Saefinn]

Personally, I hope they make it so healers need to heal more or they get buffs that they need to keep up. I too am always casting, but if I wanted to dps, I would have played a dps class. Only reason why I am dpsing as a healer, is because I would be bored.

I hope for this too, I mean I like juggling healing and DPS but it's so badly weighted in favour of DPS right now it's crazy, but there will always be content with downtime, especially if they're trying to make the jobs approachable to complete beginners, so I feel the DPS aspect at least needs to be semi-interesting, the suggestions I made wouldn't be complicated but would just be /enough/ and as based on ideas that have already worked. But there's definitely stuff they can up the healing requirement for.

What bugs me is that they already had a good balance of this.

As I was discussing with somebody else, when my group cleared Titan Savage we decided to do min iLevel synced Cape Westwind for the memes and although the fight was much simpler the healing requirement was also higher because I couldn't get as many DPS abilities in between heals as I can on Titan Savage.

[Izar_Chillen]

I think a lot of healer mains hope for this, but it is unfortunately very unlikely to ever happen because it would raise the skill floor for all content.

And raising the skill floor would cause absolute outrage among all the cure bots who already struggle with keeping the party alive. Despite how easy healing at max level currently may be, there are still people who struggle with it.
Could be people who just haven't learned their job well enough yet, but are improving steadily and will eventually have no issues, but it could also be people who simply refuse to learn anything and want to put in the absolute minimum amount of effort required to complete the content.

By asking for more to heal you're essentially asking for Yoshi and his team to risk making a bunch of Netflix healers very angry, because they're suddenly unable to complete the basic content required for the MSQ.
I think it is a necessary evil that will eventually have to happen but I'm also obviously biased when it comes to designing content for the lowest common denominator.

As someone who never played before 5.0 , did the previous features/abilities now removed not allow or encourage lazy players that heal/overheal spammed ?

From what I understand there were modes of play-style you had to alternate between and spamming cures would have ended badly for lazy players

Since this major change to many jobs come ShB was it the overly easy play-styles that brought those type to healing roles or was it always an issue prior to the changes ?

[Vyrerus]

As someone who never played before 5.0 , did the previous features/abilities now removed not allow or encourage lazy players that heal/overheal spammed ?

From what I understand there were modes of play-style you had to alternate between and spamming cures would have ended badly for lazy players

Since this major change to many jobs come ShB was it the overly easy play-styles that brought those type to healing roles or was it always an issue prior to the changes ?

IN HW and before in order to DPS, Healers had to turn on Cleric's Stance to swap their MND to be INT in order to have attack magic potency at all. They also had little to no accuracy on their gear, and needed to use accuracy melds in order to have a good chance at landing DPS spells at all. This caused healers, like tanks, to have to use crafted accessories if they wanted to be the best healer they could be, and also not seeing the frustrating MISS occur.

In SB they removed Cleric's Stance original intent, and decided that MND gets to be both an attack magic potency stat and healing magic potency stat simultaneously. Before 4.0, people argued it was too hard to stance swap, so they'd just be cure bots. After 4.0 there was no excuse, and after a year or two, the mindset that healers do damage and need to won out, and most people embraced dealing damage on healers... however, most trash monsters and all bosses still did critical hits and extra cleave mini-busters, so there was a bit of RNG to how much damage a tank would take at times, or rather a wider range. So sometimes GCD healing was more required, as there were also less oGCD heals.

Then 5.0 came... They gutted every healer DPS rotation, removing Tier 1 DOTs from being separate dots. They removed Aero III entirely from WHM, which was an AOE dot for them akin to BLM's Thunder II/IV. Scholar lost Shadowflare, Miasma II, Bane, Bio I, and Energy Drain at first. Healer DPS "rotations" are basically reduced to pulling a trigger on a gun, and then every 30 seconds fire the poison gun or whatever. It's very boring and easy to optimize, so the only thing left is optimizing healer oGCD usage. It's a really sad state of affairs.

[Tlamila]

WHM won't probably see much change since it's what they want it to be, a pure healer.
SCH I actually hope gets a rework since right now it's kinda messy, and making shield healers a thing again should put it to...a more ARR situation? But then I hated SCH in ARR so idk. Anyway hope they don't mess it up even more.

AST, my actual healer, I fear will really be destroyed even more. It's been gutted every expansion, but this time with Sage I see it badly. Yeah, nocturnal is rarely used, and for sure I'm tired of stance-fighting with other ASTs in PF, with them not putting sect on until into the fight and then picking the same one I picked. Even though I'lll miss it in some instances. But mostly, people here seem to think they'll just take nocturnal off and that's it, but I'm afraid they'll take off ALL our shields, even the diurnal ones. CI? CU? Gone. Neutral sect? Only a boost and no more the opposite effect. Stuff like that would really destroy AST for me. And I also dread if AST/WHM pair won't be good anymore, since I love healing with my partner with that composition, and since neither of us will be switching to SCH or SAG...

[Izar_Chillen]

IN HW and before in order to DPS, Healers had to turn on Cleric's Stance to swap their MND to be INT in order to have attack magic potency at all. They also had little to no accuracy on their gear, and needed to use accuracy melds in order to have a good chance at landing DPS spells at all. This caused healers, like tanks, to have to use crafted accessories if they wanted to be the best healer they could be, and also not seeing the frustrating MISS occur.

In SB they removed Cleric's Stance original intent, and decided that MND gets to be both an attack magic potency stat and healing magic potency stat simultaneously. Before 4.0, people argued it was too hard to stance swap, so they'd just be cure bots. After 4.0 there was no excuse, and after a year or two, the mindset that healers do damage and need to won out, and most people embraced dealing damage on healers... however, most trash monsters and all bosses still did critical hits and extra cleave mini-busters, so there was a bit of RNG to how much damage a tank would take at times, or rather a wider range. So sometimes GCD healing was more required, as there were also less oGCD heals.

Then 5.0 came... They gutted every healer DPS rotation, removing Tier 1 DOTs from being separate dots. They removed Aero III entirely from WHM, which was an AOE dot for them akin to BLM's Thunder II/IV. Scholar lost Shadowflare, Miasma II, Bane, Bio I, and Energy Drain at first. Healer DPS "rotations" are basically reduced to pulling a trigger on a gun, and then every 30 seconds fire the poison gun or whatever. It's very boring and easy to optimize, so the only thing left is optimizing healer oGCD usage. It's a really sad state of affairs.

The missing spells thing sounds horrendous . Im kinda glad I didnt have to go through that . What you described in 4.0 sounds good though . This aero 3 multi npc dot sounds like it was a good thing , why on earth did they remove it?

Was there a large influx of new players in the 4.0 era that weren't to keen on the extra dps abilities or struggled with healing in general? It seems odd that if it was enjoyed by many , why they felt the need to change so much , unless there were more wishes to make healing easier via forums/feedback, than not.

[GrimGale]

The missing spells thing sounds horrendous . Im kinda glad I didnt have to go through that . What you described in 4.0 sounds good though . This aero 3 multi npc dot sounds like it was a good thing , why on earth did they remove it?

Was there a large influx of new players in the 4.0 era that weren't to keen on the extra dps abilities or struggled with healing in general? It seems odd that if it was enjoyed by many , why they felt the need to change so much , unless there were more wishes to make healing easier via forums/feedback, than not.

We have a thread going on at the moment: Toxic Glare spammers.

A lot of veteran healers suspect the gutting of their damaging kits is due to the complains of Dps players about some healers focusing on dpsing and not healing them. The devs did say they wanted healers to focus on healing more, and gave that as an argument for "simplifying" the healer dps kit.

Ironically, the removal of AoE dots makes it so that healers now have to individually target enemies in dungeon packs to dot each one of them, which steals their focus away from the tank during a critical moment of high damage, so you tell me.

The healer community is more or less convinced at this point that the devs didn't really know what they were doing in regards to healer class design.

[Absurdity]

The healer community is more or less convinced at this point that the devs didn't really know what they were doing in regards to healer class design.

Not just at this point, but basically since 5.1 when it became clear that their attempt at making healers heal more did exactly nothing... actually no, that's incorrect, it did the opposite. The addition of even more powerful healing oGCDs and buffs to tank mitigation makes you heal even less than in Stormblood.

[Laerune]

We have a thread going on at the moment: Toxic Glare spammers.

A lot of veteran healers suspect the gutting of their damaging kits is due to the complains of Dps players about some healers focusing on dpsing and not healing them. The devs did say they wanted healers to focus on healing more, and gave that as an argument for "simplifying" the healer dps kit.

Ironically, the removal of AoE dots makes it so that healers now have to individually target enemies in dungeon packs to dot each one of them, which steals their focus away from the tank during a critical moment of high damage, so you tell me.

The healer community is more or less convinced at this point that the devs didn't really know what they were doing in regards to healer class design.

As a healer in a alliance and normal raid, I have noticed often when my co-healer is a WHM they tend to only DPS and leave the healing to me, which is fine when I am lazy and tired, but often this is annoying, because I too want to dps and not only heal.

[Garten]

It will be AST. Although, AST was already dead for me when they changed the cards. A pity, it was my favorite class and now healing in general (my favorite role) along with scholar changes feels so boring to me in 90% of the content. ):

I\\'ll keep spamming glare until I have the energy to learn a DPS class since I dislike Sage\\'s aesthetic (I was expecting a chemist).

100% me...