Fix Housing Megathread

[Besame]

We have instanced housing, too, apartments. Wasn't SWTOR housing only an interior? So it's exactly the same.

SWtOR and WS were a combination that included outside and inside so you were able to have 4x different fortresses like Tatooine, etc. and decorate the whole area but it belonged to just you. no neighborhoods.. When ppl visited, we either used a planet area board or friend's list. Wild Star was the best housing I have ever been involved with. If you payed a monthly sub with both games like here, the housing was included. The CartHELL Marketas I called it hehe, was just extra fluff or cost for non sub players.

[Jojoya]

I did a search on Rift and ESO and both of those have option for players to buy housing with real world money. It’s no secret that games with cash shops often have whales subsidize the free players, so it’s also possible that the “unlimited housing” is being paid for by those who purchased housing with real world money.

Personally I wouldn’t mind if there’s a Online Store purchase, or MogStation subscription add-on (like retainers), housing option available in addition to current ward system, so long as it’s a separate option. But iirc similar suggestions were shot down quite fervently by the community.

Would you support an instance housing system if it has to be paid for separately from monthly sub?

You don't have to pay extra to get your first housing in those games, though, and their cash shops are subsidizing a lot more than just housing since they have no required subscription (RIFT is F2P, ESO is B2P).

I would be fine with an extra real money fee for housing if it was to pay for extra housing allowances above and beyond what's normally allotted to an account, but not if it was the only way for someone to get their first house. A subscription is already required to get that initial housing - there's your subsidization that should be providing for every player.

[Seleni]

You don't have to pay extra to get your first housing in those games, though, and their cash shops are subsidizing a lot more than just housing since they have no required subscription (RIFT is F2P, ESO is B2P).

I would be fine with an extra real money fee for housing if it was to pay for extra housing allowances above and beyond what's normally allotted to an account, but not if it was the only way for someone to get their first house. A subscription is already required to get that initial housing - there's your subsidization that should be providing for every player.

The existing apartments should count as that initial housing.

I wonder if it’d be feasible for SE create a separate instanced personal housing area that:

- Has entrance at Gold Saucer. (So portals to major cities)
- Purchasable/leasable either through Online Store/MogStation. Maybe allow MGP as a leasing option if they’d rather not have it be exclusively through real money.
- Have both exterior and interior of a small house with fixed surroundings. Maybe allow buyers to choose from a set of different themes like wooded, lakeside, desert, beach front, etc.
- Allows gardening patch without cross-breeding (so they don’t have to re-do cross-breeding mechanism). Instead, give residents monthly courtesy tokens that can be used to purchase otherwise cross-breed only produce from a special vendor. They can make the items non-marketplace trade-able so the it doesn’t become an advantage over other players.

Benefit over small house:
- Does not get demolished until/unless the character is deleted.
- Purchasable as soon as Gold Saucer is unlocked.

Allowing real money purchase should help fund this housing area so it can expand more easily to accommodate more players if demand is there. And if it’s well-received it can divert some players from ward housing, so hopefully it’d decrease competition for wards a bit too.

[Jojoya]

The existing apartments should count as that initial housing.

While I don't completely disagree that may be the better approach if SE is going to stick with the ward system and not offer enhanced instanced housing, there's a pretty big problem with things as they currently are.

The game doesn't focus housing around apartments with houses being an extra. It focuses housing around houses while apartments don't even get a nod unless the player actually goes out of their way to talk to the Resident Caretaker and read through all the Housing Inquiry topics (which almost no one does). Apartments are only discussed in the 9th topic out of 16 and it doesn't even mention that apartments are not subject to demolition.

When you enter a housing district, what's the first thing you see? Houses (you also can see some of the merchant stalls in Goblet and Shirogane). Can you easily pick out something recognizable as a possible apartment building from the entrances? Nope. You can see the top of the towers for each of the apartment buildings if you know where to look but you're not going to go "Hey, I bet that's an apartment building" based on what little you can see.

The game isn't trying to get you interested in buying an apartment. It wants you to buy a house.

Apartments are nothing but an afterthought, not something to be sought. That's fair enough since they literally were an afterthought and not part of the original housing plan. Apartments didn't exist until mid-Heavensward even though we had houses back in ARR.

They were placed in an out of the way location, not in a position of prominence where they would gain attention. There's room in Lavender Beds and Goblet to place the buildings at the entrance (Mist would have been a problem) and SE could have swapped the location of the merchant stalls and apartment building when designing Shirogane so the first thing you see is the apartment building instead of the merchant buildings. It's confusing why SE didn't do that if the point was to get players to pick apartments and reduce the demand for houses.

If SE wants apartments to be the default housing players seek out first before trying to get a house, they need to revamp how players are introduced to housing in general and then add in an introduction to apartments specifically. They need to make it exciting to have an apartment.

Completely change the "Where the Heart Is" quests. Currently it's all about house plots and how wonderful they are and how the player will want one too - zero mention of an apartment anywhere in the quest. Instead, have the player talk to the NPC outside the wards as they currently do but instead of having the player talk to the other gatekeeper or walk into the boundary to be at a ward entrance, have the quest NPC send the player to the path leading to the apartment building so that's the first thing they see once in the ward. That will encourage the player to investigate it.

Move the GC personnel that continue the quest next to the apartment building entrance to further entice the player to enter. Have the NPC talk about how the city states added apartment housing to attract more adventures to the Grand Companies. Suggest that the player go inside the apartment building and talk to the Apartment Caretaker to learn more. Then mention that Free Companies and veteran adventurers may even get a chance to purchase one of the limited house plots available (ie make it clear that not every player will get one). The player can then go talk to the Apartment Caretaker or look around the ward before returning to the original quest NPC.

I would also suggest lowering the GC rank required for an apartment or FC private chambers to Third Sergeant while keeping the house requirement at 2nd Lieutenant. With the player qualifying for an apartment sooner, they're more likely to get one. When the requirement is the same, players will naturally hold out for the better option.

[Seleni]

For truly free housing, there’s always the inn room. It’s not customizable but it’s still a place to yourself for some peace and quiet. I used it for crafting before I could get an apartment. (2 players painting the floor continuously was the final straw for me to start avoiding crafting near city summoning bells. That was before I found out much later that you could mute other players effect sounds. But to this day I still tend to craft indoors.)

I agree that they need to advertise apartments better. Outside blogs did a better job advertising apartments for them. But I don’t think lowering of GC requirement is going to help much. You can save up 500k much more easily than 3 millions, but many people still opted to join the house-hunting savage without bothering with apartments.

[Jojoya]

I agree that they need to advertise apartments better. Outside blogs did a better job advertising apartments for them. But I don’t think lowering of GC requirement is going to help much. You can save up 500k much more easily than 3 millions, but many people still opted to join the house-hunting savage without bothering with apartments.

Of course they're going to go straight to house hunting when the game plays up how wonderful houses are but doesn't mention apartments. When the only housing other players want to talk about is a house because they're "good" but not about apartments because they're "bad".

I'm not expecting every player to go "hey, apartments are perfect, I don't want a house after all" but making apartments accessible faster than houses can lead to more satisfaction with apartments. Dropping GC rank needed for apartments and FC private champers would help create a gap the player can use to explore the features apartments offer before they decide if they want to spend another 3+ million to get a house.

Best case scenario is that demand for houses decreases as some players decide that apartments offer all they really need. Worst case scenario is that demand remains unchanged from what it is now.

Of course, for me this is dependent on whether SE is going to remain stubborn and stick with the ward system as is or if they're going to fix the housing system so every player that wants a house is able to get one. I'd still rather see everyone with a house or at the very least apartments with house-size interiors to choose from.

(Also, an inn room isn't housing any more than the WoW Garrisons are housing. Housing needs to be customizable by the player. We're not getting it just to have a bed to log out on.)

[Seleni]

Grammar

Dropping GC rank needed for apartments and FC private champers would help create a gap the player can use to explore the features apartments offer before they decide if they want to spend another 3+ million to get a house.

Apartment still costs 500k. Unless it becomes free, dropping the required GC rank is probably not going to make a difference. Most people don’t drop 500k gils just to check things out. (Which was why I tried to suggest a demo/trial experience quest for apartment before.)

And I seriously doubt they’d just let it become free with or without GC rank requirement. They probably don’t have enough capacity to provide apartments for every single character created on all the servers. I haven’t actually gone to check it out, but someone already claimed on the forum that apartments on Balmung are full.

Of course, for me this is dependent on whether SE is going to remain stubborn and stick with the ward system as is or if they're going to fix the housing system so every player that wants a house is able to get one. I'd still rather see everyone with a house or at the very least apartments with house-size interiors to choose from.

I don’t think SE is sticking to ward system solely because they are stubborn/have certain design vision. They are sticking with it because it already exists.

Short of doing another realm rebirth and making yet another new version of XIV altogether, existing wards are not going away. And as long as they exist, those wards are using up resources and driving house-hunters toward them. (I haven’t gone beyond the end of HW on MSQ, so I can’t tell if a realm rebirth might a possibility at the end of Endwalker/Hydaelyn arc. But if they are planning a complete destruction/rebirth of Eorzea then there’s even less incentive to change things now.)

I see them kind of in a bind and just decided that they might as well direct possible additional resources toward adding wards, instead of betting on a new version of instance housing that is unproven (as a business decision).

[Almagnus1]

Apartment still costs 500k. Unless it becomes free, dropping the required GC rank is probably not going to make a difference. Most people don’t drop 500k gils just to check things out. (Which was why I tried to suggest a demo/trial experience quest for apartment before.)

How about 200k then? That's still low enough that most players should be able to afford it. IMO there still needs to be a buy in cost because if it's free then EVERYONE gets an apartment because they can.... which doesn't really help things IMO.

I see them kind of in a bind and just decided that they might as well direct possible additional resources toward adding wards, instead of betting on a new version of instance housing that is unproven (as a business decision).

Yeah, it's a risk vs reward thing for them... and SE is being cautious with it (which as infuriating as it is is a good thing).

[Jojoya]

Apartment still costs 500k. Unless it becomes free, dropping the required GC rank is probably not going to make a difference. Most people don’t drop 500k gils just to check things out. (Which was why I tried to suggest a demo/trial experience quest for apartment before.)

And I seriously doubt they’d just let it become free with or without GC rank requirement. They probably don’t have enough capacity to provide apartments for every single character created on all the servers. I haven’t actually gone to check it out, but someone already claimed on the forum that apartments on Balmung are full.
.

I'm not suggesting that the apartment price be lowered or removed.

The required GC rank actually would make a difference. GC rank isn't earned by doing MSQ outside of the rank you get when you first join. It's earned through side content the new character is ignoring as they work their way through MSQ. That (not to mention the general distaste for doing Dzemael Darkhold and Aurum Vale) slows down how fast they get to the higher ranks.

A veteran player being aware of content that requires 2nd Lt might focus on getting that rank faster. New players generally don't because the game doesn't give them that information. They only learn when hear other players mention the locked content they've never seen and start asking questions.

Lowering the GC rank requirement for an apartment would definitely get some players into apartments faster, especially if at the time they get the relevant promotion there's a message stating "you're now eligible to purchase an apartment in Mist, Lavender Beds or Goblet". What do most players do when they get a message they're eligible for new content? They go try it out.

I'm really confused why you're against this idea when you're the one that thinks players should be using apartments instead of getting houses.

[Almagnus1]

I'm not suggesting that the apartment price be lowered or removed.

The required GC rank actually would make a difference. GC rank isn't earned by doing MSQ outside of the rank you get when you first join. It's earned through side content the new character is ignoring as they work their way through MSQ. That (not to mention the general distaste for doing Dzemael Darkhold and Aurum Vale) slows down how fast they get to the higher ranks.

A veteran player being aware of content that requires 2nd Lt might focus on getting that rank faster. New players generally don't because the game doesn't give them that information. They only learn when hear other players mention the locked content they've never seen and start asking questions.

Lowering the GC rank requirement for an apartment would definitely get some players into apartments faster, especially if at the time they get the relevant promotion there's a message stating "you're now eligible to purchase an apartment in Mist, Lavender Beds or Goblet". What do most players do when they get a message they're eligible for new content? They go try it out.

I'm really confused why you're against this idea when you're the one that thinks players should be using apartments instead of getting houses.

I'm reading it more as the apartments costing too much and need to have a bit more relaxed GC requirements tbh. I could see there being a barracks of sorts for each grand company as a low tier form of housing (in addition to the inn room) as the GC would want to make sure that it's members are well rested for battle. Once someone reaches Sergeant Third Class, they gain access to an apartment (which would be an actual space for themselves), and players would be able to get the house at Second Lieutenant as that's the lowest officer rank (many of us that care about that are probably Captains at this point). That would also follow the ingame rank divisions you see at the quartermaster (see https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/G...ortal%20Flames ).

As far as gil goes, while 500k to you or me may not be a lot of gil... how much is that to a new player? Would 200k make more sense? 100k? 400k? 600k?

Tbh, I'm really seeing both of you in more agreement with the overall idea, just a couple of details that need hammered out.