Summoner 6.0 Rework (my reimagining)

[ChazNatlo]

No, I think we have the same stance here.
/fistbump?

Sure. /Fistbump.

Unrelated:

Honestly, my completely unreasonable answer to the Egi problem is to integrate it further into the Summoner's kit and system.

Take their "Egis cannot be hurt, and functionally don't exist on the map" thing a step further and eliminate them entirely as their own entity. Add them to the Summoner's skeleton and animations, hovering over our shoulder (Or down by our heel, for Carbuncle) while we do things. When we use an Egi assault, they do their animation as part of the Summoner's animation, with Ifrit and Titan dashing out and retreating back to our shoulder as part of the attack animation (or just teleporting, since that would limit animation lock.)

Their autos can become our autos (Though this would require either giving Titan and Ifrit range, or the Summoner entering melee range to get the most out of them, so I can see the problem here) or whatever to make up for the loss of DPS that would otherwise occur.

I say it is unreasonable because fusing the animations together like this would be like making animations for a whole new class (I think, I'm not an animator), so it's a bit much to expect from them.

Edit: I'd also be interested in seeing them replace the job actions with more Egi actions, so the egi is even more significant to our combat style, even if it's just a cosmetic change, but I'm probably being greedy.

[Beddict]

Their autos can become our autos (Though this would require either giving Titan and Ifrit range, or the Summoner entering melee range to get the most out of them, so I can see the problem here) or whatever to make up for the loss of DPS that would otherwise occur.

The thought of Titan-Egi just lobbing boulders at people from a distance while squeaking "BOW DOWN, OVERDWELLER" in the SMN's ear is the reason why this should be a thing tbh. Just steal one of the three stones from WHM's Stone I, shrink it down to a more appropriate size, and make it glow yellow. Congrats, flying glowing boulders. For Ifrit-Egi, steal Sonic Boom off of BLU, shrink it down to an appropriate size, and make it glow red rather than purple. Now it's like...flying claw attacks at the enemy. It's hella cheap to reuse animations like that between Jobs but I don't think most people would notice immediately, and even then who cares, SE reuses animations all the time. Look at how they removed fancy stuff like Shadowskin and gave DRK Rampart instead, or removing Leeches to give SCH Esuna. Borrow stuff from WHM and BLU, tweak the animation to make it more appropriate, and most people won't notice unless they look super closely.

[ItMe]

Take their "Egis cannot be hurt, and functionally don't exist on the map" thing a step further and eliminate them entirely as their own entity. Add them to the Summoner's skeleton and animations, hovering over our shoulder (Or down by our heel, for Carbuncle) while we do things. When we use an Egi assault, they do their animation as part of the Summoner's animation, with Ifrit and Titan dashing out and retreating back to our shoulder as part of the attack animation (or just teleporting, since that would limit animation lock.)

Their autos can become our autos (Though this would require either giving Titan and Ifrit range, or the Summoner entering melee range to get the most out of them, so I can see the problem here) or whatever to make up for the loss of DPS that would otherwise occur.

So it would kinda be like a Stand?
I can get behind that~
If more of our attacks felt like they were coming from our egi they wouldn't feel so out of place to me.
This is a neat idea.

Though... do SMN have ranged auto attacks?

[Warlyx]

Take their "Egis cannot be hurt, and functionally don't exist on the map" thing a step further and eliminate them entirely as their own entity. Add them to the Summoner's skeleton and animations, hovering over our shoulder (Or down by our heel, for Carbuncle) while we do things. When we use an Egi assault, they do their animation as part of the Summoner's animation, with Ifrit and Titan dashing out and retreating back to our shoulder as part of the attack animation (or just teleporting, since that would limit animation lock.)


I say it is unreasonable because fusing the animations together like this would be like making animations for a whole new class (I think, I'm not an animator), so it's a bit much to expect from them.

u guys didnt noticed one BIG THING:

thats HOW REAPER IS GOING TO WORK






hell look at this , SE can combine both player and "pet" as one animation






im fairly sure SE can create spells that instead of being a big explosion (see fire IV ) u see ifrit casting a nuke on the enemy then dissapear


but thats what SE or players want for SMN?

that pets are now invisibly entities for the mobs is something that still feels wrong to me after all this time.

[Raikai]

u guys didnt noticed one BIG THING:

thats HOW REAPER IS GOING TO WORK






hell look at this , SE can combine both player and "pet" as one animation






im fairly sure SE can create spells that instead of being a big explosion (see fire IV ) u see ifrit casting a nuke on the enemy then dissapear


but thats what SE or players want for SMN?

that pets are now invisibly entities for the mobs is something that still feels wrong to me after all this time.

It does feel wrong... however there's nothing it can be done for SMN to be the "classic MMORPG pet class" unless they somehow improve their combat code.

With Reaper working this way, I wouldn't be surprised if SMN's pets got the same treatment, like you or the poster that you quoted suggested. With the things as they are now, honestly that's the only way I can see SMN moving forward.

[Shurrikhan]

but thats what SE or players want for SMN?

that pets are now invisibly entities for the mobs is something that still feels wrong to me after all this time.

Personally, making pets even less like pets to be more responsive would be at best a lesser evil.

Right now we have the worst of both worlds, though: our pets are barely pets and they're just about as unresponsive as before.

While there are doubtless some hard limits there, it doesn't seem like we even hit that wall before choosing to gut ACN/SMN pets.

Personally, if we're going to get the Reaper treatment, there at least needs to be some illusion of the egi as a separate and persistent entity, even if one phasing in and out of full manifestation. Heck, it could even be a globe of light most of the time, so long as it isn't clearly fixed to our character's facing and positioning or (by whatever reason) feel like it's just an attachment to our character model. Heck, just imagine how bad that's going to look on these Reaper animations if one turns their character, mid-animation, unless we finally get dynamic animations on the Voidsent itself (such that it continues to face the enemy from our position, rather than merely matching our character facing).

(Of course, dynamic animations like that would be a huge boon regardless; just imagine if Heavy Shot, for instance, finally aimed at its target instead of just wherever the Archer/Bard is facing to then fire at whatever angle out of the bow.)

[ChazNatlo]

Personally, making pets even less like pets to be more responsive be at best a lesser evil.

That was, broadly speaking, my intent. I'd love to have my tanking Titan again (physical Garuda and Ifrit are an after thought, them being able to take damage or not is largely an afterthought, After they upped their resistance to AoE damage, they were sensible enough) But assuming they aren't going to go backwards on that, a "less bad" option is the best we'll get.

[Tulzscha]

Honestly, my completely unreasonable answer to the Egi problem is to integrate it further into the Summoner's kit and system.

Take their "Egis cannot be hurt, and functionally don't exist on the map" thing a step further and eliminate them entirely as their own entity. Add them to the Summoner's skeleton and animations, hovering over our shoulder (Or down by our heel, for Carbuncle) while we do things. When we use an Egi assault, they do their animation as part of the Summoner's animation, with Ifrit and Titan dashing out and retreating back to our shoulder as part of the attack animation (or just teleporting, since that would limit animation lock.)

So they'd be like miniature Demi-Bahamuts in a way? Awesome idea, I like this a lot. Would they still have to be summoned like currently or would you just always have an egi party following you around? That could be a neat cooldown, having a bunch of little egis attack at once for a bit. Ooh or maybe you could absorb one of them into yourself for a FBT-like effect.