Popular WoW content creator Bellular is praising FF14.

[FelixDaCat]

I don’t think so. 14 is becoming more popular because of over time awareness, but it seemed to have only really grown when ShB hit. I think WoW. despite its current shortcomings is still the top.Whether or not 6.0 will change that though idk.

I would have never known about FF14 if it wasn't for the NoClip Documentry done for Stormblood.

[Shurrikhan]

I would have never known about FF14 if it wasn't for the NoClip Documentry done for Stormblood.

That documentary, while entertaining and in some ways illuminating, has always been a bit weird for me. While it's right on the money about a lot of stuff, it's weird how they copy a lot of the old soundbites and scapegoat lines rather than going for a deeper understanding and therefore seem to miss the points experienced by a lot of its players.

Looking at this, it feels really weird that I could go from serious raiding and PvP (and now a tremendous love for high-key Mythic+ dungeon runs) to 1.x and actually quite enjoy it. That is, until I remember that not everything in that doc is sufficiently accurate, precise, or pertinent to really get a picture of what 1.x was like, and there's a tremendous difference between entering an experience with (negative) expectations around which to anchor that experience (again, negatively) and just taking it for what it is.

[FelixDaCat]

That documentary, while entertaining and in some ways illuminating, has always been a bit weird for me. While it's right on the money about a lot of stuff, it's weird how they copy a lot of the old soundbites and scapegoat lines rather than going for a deeper understanding and therefore seem to miss the points experienced by a lot of its players.

Looking at this, it feels really weird that I could go from serious raiding and PvP (and now a tremendous love for high-key Mythic+ dungeon runs) to 1.x and actually quite enjoy it. That is, until I remember that not everything in that doc is sufficiently accurate, precise, or pertinent to really get a picture of what 1.x was like, and there's a tremendous difference between entering an experience with (negative) expectations around which to anchor that experience (again, negatively) and just taking it for what it is.

The NoClip thing made me realise just how important having strong direction can make or break a game. WoW has seemed lost to me for a long time. WoW will always be WotLK. What amazed me and made me want to play was (& I still think this) FF14 was just such a pretty game. I started on PS4 , which died due to FF14 maxing it out. I got a PS4-Pro, before realising I wanted to go over to PC for FF14.

Starting the game when Stormblood game out, really spoiled me, as I had so much content to work through for 6 weeks, before I hit 70. Heavensward was so well written and while I moved to RDM after about 6 months, I never felt Stormblood hit it's stride. Shadowbringers for me, was very close in giving me the same awe Heavensward did and while I stop start between patches, have been really impressed for the most.

I still loath a lot of Duty content, where I am forced to play as another Scion, as I don't play more than one job role/char in games, so I always struggle when I need to play a Scion who's class is a mage or healers. Currently I am stuck at the 5.5 Duty where you do the big battle, but will eventually nail it, when my back recovers from the operation I had on y nerves last Friday.

[linayar]

It's too bad that guy is such a white knight for FF. It's not healthy when you can't have a constructive discussion. Same thing with Brian guy from Work to game or whatever the YT channel is called - maybe he matured over the years but probably one of the biggest White Knights in the FF14 Content creator scene I saw when I used to watch their videos years ago.

If Brian is a white knight, then the term either has a positive connotation I don't know about, or you're not using it correctly. Brian is a fan of FFXIV, and as a fan, he would naturally have more things he likes about FFXIV than he doesn't like, but he shares his dislikes as well as his likes, things he wants in FFXIV and things he could do without, just like any fan.

With Bellular and his friend, I feel it's the same thing, minus the experience of being caught up and plus the comparison with WoW. Those factors combined would of course have them gushing about FFXIV. Time will tell whether they will feel the same once they've caught up with where long-time players are, but at the very least, they have said that some things they think WoW does better, like the feel of combat control.

To have a constructive discussion, you'd have to have more knowledge about the game, but where they are in the game, it's very possible to have an overwhelmingly positive experience, especially if they're comparing it to some negative experiences in WoW.

If Bellular makes it to endgame I guarantee he's gonna turn negative. This game just doesn't have the endgame a long time WoW player would expect.

Nah, he's said he doesn't want another main game. He wants a game that he can enjoy on the side, so FFXIV's endgame would be suitable for him.

[Sotaris]

If Brian is a white knight, then the term either has a positive connotation I don't know about, or you're not using it correctly. Brian is a fan of FFXIV, and as a fan, he would naturally have more things he likes about FFXIV than he doesn't like, but he shares his dislikes as well as his likes, things he wants in FFXIV and things he could do without, just like any fan.

With Bellular and his friend, I feel it's the same thing, minus the experience of being caught up and plus the comparison with WoW. Those factors combined would of course have them gushing about FFXIV. Time will tell whether they will feel the same once they've caught up with where long-time players are, but at the very least, they have said that some things they think WoW does better, like the feel of combat control.

To have a constructive discussion, you'd have to have more knowledge about the game, but where they are in the game, it's very possible to have an overwhelmingly positive experience, especially if they're comparing it to some negative experiences in WoW.

Nah, he's said he doesn't want another main game. He wants a game that he can enjoy on the side, so FFXIV's endgame would be suitable for him.

I don't know your definition of a White Knight but generally I see it as someone who speak fondly about the thing their passinate about but can't see any issues with it, being overly possitive and dare I call it, naive.
That label I feel can/could be applied to both Brian and that guy next to Bellular - with the limited watch I seen them both.

So if you can't even see the problems (spoiler alert, this game as a lot of flaws and is not perfect) there is impossible to have a constructive disussion.

[linayar]

I don't know your definition of a White Knight but generally I see it as someone who speak fondly about the thing their passinate about but can't see any issues with it, being overly possitive and dare I call it, naive.
That label I feel can/could be applied to both Brian and that guy next to Bellular - with the limited watch I seen them both.

So if you can't even see the problems (spoiler alert, this game as a lot of flaws and is not perfect) there is impossible to have a constructive disussion.

Well, like I said, Brian has stated what he doesn't like about the game. And what little can be seen about the guy next to Bellular is he's very passionate about the story, but he has agreed with Bellular's initial problem with the game. It might change or it might not as they continue playing.

So no, Brian is definitely not a white knight, while Bellular's friend is a relatively new player, so not all of the problems may be apparent for him. That said, what may be a problem to you may not be a problem to others, and vice versa. A constructive discussion, again, must be put in context, and it's harder to have enough context if you're just started playing. That doesn't mean one's experience is invalid. Whether people like the game or not from the beginning is a valid experience for them.

[Sotaris]

Well, like I said, Brian has stated what he doesn't like about the game. And what little can be seen about the guy next to Bellular is he's very passionate about the story, but he has agreed with Bellular's initial problem with the game. It might change or it might not as they continue playing.

So no, Brian is definitely not a white knight, while Bellular's friend is a relatively new player, so not all of the problems may be apparent for him. That said, what may be a problem to you may not be a problem to others, and vice versa. A constructive discussion, again, must be put in context, and it's harder to have enough context if you're just started playing. That doesn't mean one's experience is invalid. Whether people like the game or not from the beginning is a valid experience for them.

Like I said, I haven't watched their youtube channel for like 2-3 years. Back then I recall him being verrrry naive and acting like the typical white knight i described, maybe it different now but i'm not gonna watch their content.

[Shurrikhan]

If Brian is a white knight, then the term either has a positive connotation I don't know about, or you're not using it correctly. Brian is a fan of FFXIV, and as a fan, he would naturally have more things he likes about FFXIV than he doesn't like, but he shares his dislikes as well as his likes, things he wants in FFXIV and things he could do without, just like any fan.

I can see it both/either way(s), personally.

I think the whole "white knight" label is more a matter of (1) ratio of critique relative to the average involved and knowledgable player and (2) hindsight. If he covers released content that most people you run into would have some serious concerns about and, himself, has little to nothing he finds worthy of critique, or upcoming content that has warning bells ringing for half or so of players and yet for which he can only see clear skies on the horizon... yeah, relatively speaking, he's not going to be someone I, personally, am going to see much community value in, as his work at best attracts more players to the game, which indirectly decreases the need for quality, rather than much addressing those matters of quality themselves. If he then goes through some notable mental gymnastics or seemingly active neglect to defend or ignore certain problems, then I'd call him a white knight.

For me, Brian is right on the cusp of that.

Tonally, he meets most criteria for me, as even when he notes an issue he perceives, it tends to seem so blanketed over that there is no call to action or responsibility or anything else to make that criticism actionable or significant. In the strictest sense, though, he falls just short.

What does a WoW-Player expect? A Weekly Login for the raids and mythic+ ? Or the daily Daily-Grind? As a long time WoW-Player, I really miss that... not.

There is no weekly login bonus in WoW. XIV has a daily-grind in the form of daily roulettes; WoW does not.

Can we at least aim for some degree of accuracy in our comparisons?

[OrigNN]

There is no weekly login bonus in WoW. XIV has a daily-grind in the form of daily roulettes; WoW does not.

Can we at least aim for some degree of accuracy in our comparisons?

I was talking about the weekly-IDs in WoW. A lot of players (including me a few years ago) only log in one or two times a week and do the raids and the mythic keys. That was the BIG endgame.

[linayar]

I can see it both/either way(s), personally.

I think the whole "white knight" label is more a matter of (1) ratio of critique relative to the average involved and knowledgable player and (2) hindsight. If he covers released content that most people you run into would have some serious concerns about and, himself, has little to nothing he finds worthy of critique, or upcoming content that has warning bells ringing for half or so of players and yet for which he can only see clear skies on the horizon... yeah, relatively speaking, he's not going to be someone I, personally, am going to see much community value in, as his work at best attracts more players to the game, which indirectly decreases the need for quality, rather than much addressing those matters of quality themselves. If he then goes through some notable mental gymnastics or seemingly active neglect to defend or ignore certain problems, then I'd call him a white knight.

For me, Brian is right on the cusp of that.

Tonally, he meets most criteria for me, as even when he notes an issue he perceives, it tends to seem so blanketed over that there is no call to action or responsibility or anything else to make that criticism actionable or significant. In the strictest sense, though, he falls just short.

The essence of Worktogame is, initially, about balancing game and work life. And while Chris has transitioned to full time content creation, Brian still makes that balance in his life, not to mention his growing family.

As part of that, they traditionally don't do many contents in the game (although Chris is starting to branch out more). Their contents are mostly about guides for beginners and general news and such.

Where this "white knight" discussion is more relevant is when they post discussion topics, and having two of them, sometimes they disagree and sometimes they agree, and sometimes they agree with some nuanced differences. It's important to note that the interaction between the two is what makes Worktogame as they each have separate channels for them individually.

That said, given how they play the game, there is that caveat that they can acknowledge that some people have problems with certain aspects of the game without those problems being applicable to them.

And I really don't think actionable criticism is necessarily a responsibility of content creator, although they have made them, such as when it comes to community problems, like people gatekeeping others for not liking the story. Those types of problems have easier actionable criticisms, but as gamers, they can only express their desires without necessarily knowing how a game developer should design the game to meet those desires.

Also, depending on who you ask, they are known to have a negative channel even though they post many positive videos because they have also posted negative videos.

XIV has a daily-grind in the form of daily roulettes; WoW does not.

WoW does have random Normal and Heroic dungeon bonuses which are increased once daily, though you can spam them the rest of the day for less rewards. That said, many of WoW's grind seems to be in the open world where there are world quests and sometimes daily quests, though there are other instanced grinds as well.